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Ramblings on the Rolands

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jimgansett

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In various forums, many people give their views pro and con, so let me, in short form, give my view. As background I currently own an Iorio H Accorgan and a Roland 8x. I have previously owned the Roland 7 and 7x but not the smaller ones like the 3x or 1x, so my comments will be general.

First, I look at Rolands as kind of an evolution of the accordion, not meant to replace the acoustic, just another means for accordionists to be more creative. The same arguments we hear from acoustic purists were heard with the advent of the electric guitar and the digital pianos. Neither were particularly liked at first, but both found their niche and became accepted generally by musicians. There is room in the musical world for both acoustic and digital instruments.

I believe that most people who buy a Roland are doing so because they want that extra creativity that comes with the orchestral voices, and in the case of the 8x, the available effects section (things like panning, flangers, equalizer, tap delays, etc. etc.) .

However, I feel the biggest problem most acoustic players have with the Roland is that they fail to understand that as an electronic instrument ( face it, it is NOT and accordion, it is a synthesizer that looks and plays similar to an accordion ) there is a definite learning curve. Many acoustic players who consider a Roland either fail to understand that or, many times I am sure, are unwilling to put the time and effort in to learn about the instrument. In addition, there are some dealers who fail to properly demonstrate the instrument. An acoustic player can pretty much pick up an any acoustic accordion of the same type (piano, chromatic, etc.) and play right from the get go. Yes, it takes a little time to get used to the new acoustic, but bottom line, at its most basic it is a matter of picking voices (bassoon, clarinet, ever) and pushing keys and buttons while pulling/pushing bellows (I'm not talking special nuances like shaking, bending notes, etc) and can be played right away. They are not physically changing anything about the accordion itself and don't have to worry about a multitude of orchestral voices and effects. They expect to be able to pick up a Roland and have it be just as easy and are disappointed when it isn't.

Concerning the bellows, most people new to the Roland find the bellows hard/stiff. On my first Roland, at first I didn't like it at all, the feel of the bellows. Later, getting used to it, and realizing that I barely had to move the bellows at all to get the effects I wanted, I actually liked it very much. For one who can used to it, it is actually much easier on the arms and shoulders. But make no mistake, bellows feel is not like an acoustic and will take getting used to it. Even the 8x with its dynamic bellows control, while a considerable improvement, is still not exactly like the feel of an acoustic bellow.

And, as usual, I ramble, so to sum up: As someone noted somewhere, Rolands are not for everybody. There is a definite learning curve that must be committed to in order to get the most out of the instrument. Sure, if you like all the default settings, you can play it without a whole lot of adjustments, but most people find by tweaking they can get pretty much what they want out of the instrument. They can increase your creativity immensely. If you look at one, find a good dealer who is willing to take the time and who knows about the instrument (you can tell about that after about 10 minutes with him/her).

And please.... if you are new to a Roland and have problems with it or questions about it, join a Roland V-Accordion forum, like the one on YAHOO for example. There are people there who have been playing Rolands for years who are more than willing to help. As you can imagine, a forum dedicated to a particular instrument, and there are sections for 1x, 3x, 7x, and 8x, will be one that can most probably answer your questions. I actually find out things on the forums before my dealer does!
 
Jim gave some good insight I think on the Roland accordion. I've never held one, but I know I would certainly consider one. As one of the least knowledgeable accordionists here, I would just speculate that the Roland's strength is that it does all that an acoustic does...and considerably more. Yet, it doesn't have the issues of an acoustic...it never needs tuning, and it doesn't have the myriad of mechanical parts to break that an acoustic does. Finally, even the most expensive Roland is cheaper than many good acoustics! While I like my Hohner, I can see myself getting one in the future...providing of course that Roland maintains the production of the V-accordion...something they've said they will yet many are thinking they will not. Still, with people like Jim D. around, anyone could have a Roland and be comfortable with the thought that there is someone quite qualified to service it.
 
As an owner of both an Elkavox 83 (identical to the iorio h) and a FR-3X I fully agree with you Jim.
I actually hate some things about both of them, but they both do what I need them to.
Ben
 
While we don't really know the future of the V-Accordion, I really think that they will continue to support it in Asia. It actually was very profitable for Roland. They were made, if I remember correctly, in a part of the factory that made Digital Pianos for the European market. That factory had money problems I believe mostly to due to the softer market for their digital piano end of it.... as well as high labor and benefit costs. Hey, who but Italy takes the entire month of August off!

In any event, being a digital instrument, any good electronic tech who has experience repairing electronic keyboards should be able to repair a Roland, as it is exactly that-- an electronic keyboard -- providing they have taken the time to get the manuals from Roland.

Lasvegascolonel's point about having no tuning issues is an important one. I don't know about all Roland models, but the 8x can be tuned in increments of .1hz up or down from A440. I don't have it handy right now so I'm not sure about the .1 Hz. but the increments, in any event, are extremely close together. This can come in very handy if you play with another instrument. I generally gig with a harmonica player (he has quite a few harmonicas!) and as you might imagine, as a reeded instrument harmonicas are prone to go out of tune with age, temp, humidity, etc. The ability to match his instrument is nice to be able to do.

I don't know about all parts of the country, but we're lucky in Central MA to have Jim D near by. Finding someone to repair regular acoustics is getting very hard to do as those skilled in acoustic repair are getting fewer and fewer as they age. :D
 
fjsys said:
I actually hate some things about both of them, but they both do what I need them to.
Ben

Ben, I think youve sumed it up very well. If one instrument did everything anybody would want regardless of how they play or who they are, we would all have one..... just one! :)
 
jimgansett said:
Lasvegascolonels point about having no tuning issues is an important one. I dont know about all Roland models, but the 8x can be tuned in increments of .1hz up or down from A440. I dont have it handy right now so Im not sure about the .1 Hz. but the increments, in any event, are extremely close together. This can come in very handy if you play with another instrument. I generally gig with a harmonica player (he has quite a few harmonicas!) and as you might imagine, as a reeded instrument harmonicas are prone to go out of tune with age, temp, humidity, etc. The ability to match his instrument is nice to be able to do.

Hi Jim,

The FR-3X can be tuned up or down in increments of 50 cents. Im not sure, but I think thats a lot coarser than the 8x. Too bad; it would be nice for the 3x to adjust to an instrument thats just a few cents off (I play with a lot of out-of-tune pianos, bagpipes, etc.). Luckily, it does have a very wet musette that is almost painful (even though Im accustomed to the Scottish sound) so pretty much anything sounds OK next to that!
 
Hi, it is interesting about being able to change the tuning on the Rolands. This very day (3/5) the harmonica player I gig with asked me if I could change the 8x tuning before this gig. We went to a little obscure place out of the way and we both played an "A" note and his harmonica was definitely not in tune with the 8x. We incremented the tuning on the Roland by .1Hz steps up to 440.4Hz and both instruments were in tune together. It's incredible of what change such small increments make. We're talking changing the tuning by less than 1/2 of a cycle. Definitely easier than trying to file his reeds :lol:

I don't know how cycles (Hz) relate to cents as tuning goes. It would be interesting to know the relationship between them.
 
To me, the Roland already is quite an amazing instrument, but as Jim described, it is able to be re-tuned to accommodate out-of-tune instruments. Quite impressive I'd say. That makes it a very smart instrument indeed and it makes itself seem like it is the "leader of the pack" in that it gets done whatever needs to be done to benefit the group, in this case the rest of the musical ensemble, band, etc. I wonder if Roland digital pianos do that as well. I've heard musicians say they would only have a digital piano in a band as it never gets out of tune. Whether it also can be adjusted tonally for the other instruments would be a plus too.
 
jimgansett said:
I dont know how cycles (Hz) relate to cents as tuning goes. It would be interesting to know the relationship between them.
As far as I can understand it you cannot convert from cents to Hz. The reason is that cents is a frequency ratio (hence a dimensionless constant) and Hz is cycles per second which therefore has a physical dimension. I guess its converting apples to pears. Im sure you can google this somewhere.

Edit: Found this one:
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-centsratio.htm
 
Glen, that was a very interesting site! Their table stated ...So, the conversion factor 4 cents / Hz is valid for the purposes of tuning .... is interesting. Yeah, I know, apples and oranges, but still very interesting. Thanks!
 
Indeed, this is correct around 440 Hz but will not work at other frequencies.
Eg at twice the frequency it is around 2 cents per hertz.
 
Some of our forum members already have a Roland V-accordion, and some like me are interested in perhaps acquiring one at some time. With that in mind, I just thought I'd pass on the latest word I received from Roland USA. They advised that they haven't yet been told "where" the next accordion products will be built (but indicated Roland is still committed to the V-accordion), and, they have no word on any replacement for the FR8X. They said they often don't get the word on new models until the product is actually released. Perhaps in this case no news is good news, as most of the people with the FR8X are quite happy with it and are probably not concerned about any "upgrade" or "replacement" to it. Some of you might want to sign up for the Roland Insider and Backstage programs as they will advise you on what is coming up. You can even tailor the information they provide you just for accordion information. Unofficially, I've heard Roland may not pursue the V-accordion production when all supplies/orders are exhausted, though that was from former, not current, Roland employees. Hopefully, the official word will be the correct one.
 
Yes, right now no one knows if there will be a replacement for the 8x. You know, for Roland U.S., the accordion is kind of a foreign (no pun intended) instrument. The deal primarily with other more mainstream ( in the U.S. ) instruments and accessories. The largest market for the V-Accordion is overseas, pretty much anywhere else than here due to the greater popularity of the accordion elsewhere. It's not surprising then that Roland U.S. is late getting news. When each new Roland has been developed, the European market gets them pretty far ahead of the U.S.

For those with the 8x, I was told by a pretty good source that the set software program for the 8x (already available for the 7x, 3x, and 1x) will be Roland Europe's final project and they said they will finish it. Will that happen?

My gut feeling is that Roland Japan will pick up the V-Accordion and continue it. Sales have been too great to let it go without serious thought. Only time will tell, kids....... :?:
 
Roland Japan would be great especially since the thinking in some circles, including some of the other electronic forums, is that Japan especially is the best market for electronics, rather than Italy. If they were actually made in Japan, that would be welcome to many people knowing many gladly pay for Japanese craftsmanship in Lexus, Acura and Infiniti automobiles. My hunch, though, is that since Roland already has a keyboard manufacturing center in Indonesia, that's where the V-accordion would likely be made, if it is continued. Guess we'll just have to wait. I'd be curious as to how many V-accordions Roland does sell in the U.S. Even with 335 million people, like Jim said, the U.S. has a smaller percentage of those with accordion interests, though there are thousands on other U.S. accordion sites that focus on the button-style accordion.
 
As we know, Roland has closed its factory in Italy that makes the Roland V-Accordion. Officially, Roland is committed to sustaining the production of the V-Accordion, and just last month reiterated as much as a reply to a query I made. Some former Roland employees have told me the rumor mill is filled with discussion on the V-Accordions demise, but I suspect no one really does know for sure. The Japanese Music Trade Association recently printed this May 2014 article on Rolands takeover by a private equity firm, providing further insight on Roland. For those who might be interested the site is: http://www.musictrades.co.jp/webnews/english/2014/05/roland-to-go-private.html .
If you cant access it, you can likely find it on the Japan Music Trades Web News site.
 
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