Roland price drop?

[Thomas N]

As someone who’s played synths since the early 80s, if someone made a simple accordion-format midi controller with no built in sounds or amplification, and only highly programmable button configuration, I’d be all over it. Tying controller to sound generation is a guaranteed dead end. A good controller with proper velocity, aftertouch and modulation controls doesn't get old, while sound generation is always advancing.
Give me a dumb controller with my choice of sound modules any day.

I agree with you 100%. My first synth was purchased new in 1986 - an Ensoniq Mirage which had crude sampling capability. I've had every iteration of synth since then. Eventually I discovered that using a Mac and sound libraries combined with a good controller was not only future-proofed, but cheaper as well. I don't gig with synths and that's a whole other ballgame, but for home studio use it's a winner.

 

[SteveBox]

As someone who’s played synths since the early 80s, if someone made a simple accordion-format midi controller with no built in sounds or amplification, and only highly programmable button configuration, I’d be all over it.

I have a Limex MIDI system installed in an acoustic accordion without their optional internal sound generator. So it is a simple accordion MIDI controller (and with both velocity sensing and bellows expression control), combined with an acoustic accordion. I mix the sound of the acoustic reeds with sounds from an external MIDI unit. If you don't want the reeds, you could remove or disable them somehow. I think one can do this with almost any of the other accordion MIDI conversion kits.

There is a problem with this type of setup, however, that would be frustrating to many people. The MIDI controller and sound generation do not come already integrated and tested together. There are many parameters to fine tune and adjust to get it to sound really good and have good bellows expression control.

 

[John M]

. . . They’d play their Rolands for an audience who’d be wowed by the idea of an accordion sounding like a banjo while thinking that a real banjo doesn’t sound like that. They’d be paid for the gig, and that would soothe them. . .

I agree if you play the "banjo" through the Roland on board speakers. Have you ever heard the Roland "banjo" through a "line array" speaker such as the Bose L1 Pro8 or L1 Compact? It is extremely realistic. It is amazing!!

 

[Alan Sharkis]

I agree if you play the "banjo" through the Roland on board speakers. Have you ever heard the Roland "banjo" through a "line array" speaker such as the Bose L1 Pro8 or L1 Compact? It is extremely realistic. It is amazing!!

Actully, no. I was just thinking that the banjo sound (or any other sound) coming from a Roland might fool the audience but not the player. But I can imagine how that sound, coming through a full-range system would be improved, especially on the low end.

 

[stickista]

While I totally admire Cory P’s talent, I always come away from his performances feeling that those piano, bass, and drum sounds coming out his accordion-shaped instrument are somehow… ‘wrong’, for lack of a better word. Perhaps ‘unsatisfying.’
My interest in a CBA midi controller is as a recording tool. When I play live (or hear artists), I really prefer to hear the real instrument. Synth keyboards get a weird dispensation… we’ve so accepted them as controllers because they were first to the party, and have always been sonically ‘androgynous’… Harpsichord , piano, organ, rhodes, etc.
I remember an interview with a member of the jazz group Fourplay who described a period when every member was playing a midi controller version of their instrument, and each playing every sound but their native one. One of them finally said “Can we all just go back or our own chairs please?”

 

[SteveBox]

While I totally admire Cory P’s talent, I always come away from his performances feeling that those piano, bass, and drum sounds coming out his accordion-shaped instrument are somehow… ‘wrong’, for lack of a better word.

To anyone who thinks non-accordion sounds coming from accordion-shaped objects is "wrong", then this is about as wrong as it gets. I presume this group has a lot of fun performing. Interestingly, they chose to use real instruments for the drums and guitar.

 

[Walker]

Is there any word on the possibility of Roland releasing new digital accordion models?

I think if Roland walks away from the virtual accordion, it will be a sad day for the whole accordion community. We need Yin and Yang in the accordion world - for musical balance and health of our instrument as a whole. Accordionists deserve to have ever improving instruments and options. When we stand still we end up going backwards, and other hobbies and musical endeavours will benefits as a result.

Just a thought...​

 

[dak]

Synth keyboards get a weird dispensation… we’ve so accepted them as controllers because they were first to the party, and have always been sonically ‘androgynous’… Harpsichord , piano, organ, rhodes, etc.

That's not much of a dispensation: those are all very similar-looking instruments regarding their controls. How is the acceptance for a synth keyboard playing trumpet or saxophone or violin? Not all that high.

Heck, I wear drag when singing alto. An accordion is a great controller. We just need costumes for them. Like holograms of the respective players.

 

[Tom]

Is there any word on the possibility of Roland releasing new digital accordion models?

I think if Roland walks away from the virtual accordion, it will be a sad day for the whole accordion community. We need Yin and Yang in the accordion world - for musical balance and health of our instrument as a whole. Accordionists deserve to have ever improving instruments and options. When we stand still we end up going backwards, and other hobbies and musical endeavours will benefits as a result.

Just a thought...​

Yup, us retired dentists are too small a pool to finance the R & D. We need that $250 midi out only accordion, heck don’t even need bellows sensor, use volume pedal. Add chromatic keyboards like in a laptop, totally electronic, no linkages, no reeds, maybe even 3d print the body,….. Actually, the midi to line out or small speaker probably wouldn’t be that much more on the cost, since everything should be able to be done on one chip or circuit. Get the youths back involved, build up the demand to support the good stuff.

 

[Ventura]

since the price drop thread is re-surfacing, do we have any
anecdotal evidence of a significant surge in sales or orders ?

if orders, is everyone still waiting or does anyone see signs of
life out there somewhere in the contracted manufacturing ?
(Roland still has to supply the proprietary electronics sub-assemblies)

i can state that in the New England used market, there seems to be
a serious non-interest in the pre-owned Roland stuff for sale.. there
are several 7x, and two 8x's and a 4x and a 3x most of which have
been on offer for most of the year now.
(not counting the vaporware from western Penna. that is part
of the regular bait-and-switch marketing)

 

[SteveBox]

i can state that in the New England used market, there seems to be
a serious non-interest in the pre-owned Roland stuff for sale.. there
are several 7x, and two 8x's and a 4x and a 3x most of which have
been on offer for most of the year now.

I live in New England, and I am not aware of any used Rolands for sale locally. Where are these? To my knowledge, there are almost no accordion stores anymore (maybe Falcetti has a few?). Just curious, I am not necessarily looking to buy one (but it would have to be a CBA model).

If you look on eBay, there are scores of used and new Rolands being sold from Japan. Does that suggest anything?

 

[Ventura]

i have a recurring craigslist search for "accordions" within 250 miles of my location
that i reference weekly as a way to be in touch with the ebb and flow.. one needs
to do this regularly as so many accordion listings are priced for suckers, and you can't hardly
tell unless you realize something is a perpetual listing

but not many CBA's ever at all.. was a nice black full sized Hohner chromatic
in Virginia last month for $500.. it might have expired but could come around again..
Rpse took all the last of the Roland Warehouse chromatic 7's and such, and what
she didn't sell ended up with Liberty when they bought out the estate inventory..
but those were 10 cents on the dollar from list price so probably long gone.. I know she
paid waay less for them new in the box than Roland Parts would charge for a replacement pedalboard

other friends monitor the facebook marketplace and report anything interesting,
and you can also search ebay by location distance, but ebay only needs sporadic
monitoring as the vast majority of listings there are sucker bait.. i can tag some that have
been on over 5 years now.. and the japan listings of course are considered scams afaik..
i mean where would the used market there come FROM ? how many accordion
players do you think there ever were in Japan total from the beginning of time to now ?

 

[EuroFolker]

I just noticed the real reason for the price drop, lol. Anyone care to guess?

 

[Wheezer]

I just noticed the real reason for the price drop, lol. Anyone care to guess?

I hope that it’s because Roland plans to announce the 5X and 9X. Don’t keep us in suspense!

 

[EuroFolker]

Made in China.

 

[Wheezer]

I heard quite a while ago that Roland was moving V-Accordion production to China, but the move never seemed to get past the speculation stage. Because this would leave production in a state of limbo, where the Italian facilities were being terminated, but the Chinese facility was not being spun up, it lead to speculation that the V-Accordion would simply be abandoned.

Have you gotten confirmation from a reliable source that the Chinese factory has been completed and is making production runs? Regardless of how one feels about the “made in China” brand, this could spell a healthier future for the V-Accordion.

 

[EuroFolker]

It says "Made in China" on mine. I suppose that's confirmation enough?

I can tell you right away that in this case, Made in China is not a good thing. Several small QC issues with mine.

 

[dak]

Have you gotten confirmation from a reliable source that the Chinese factory has been completed and is making production runs? Regardless of how one feels about the “made in China” brand, this could spell a healthier future for the V-Accordion.

I don't see how. Moving production to China essentially means that development is over since the engineering department and the construction facilties are in different countries and operate in a top-down manner. That doesn't really work for the incremental back-and-forth resulting in progress within a continued product line.

PostScriptum: I just took a look at my ancient FR-1b to see what the label says. "Made in Italy". Now that was kind of unexpected to me.

 

[Ventura]

the last i knew of was when Roland closed the old SIEL factory
in Italy which closed their European R&D and manufacturing
permanently.

the physical "production" of FR units was then sub-contracted to FATAR, who is primarily
an OEM supplier of keyboard assemblies. Fatar has never had their own electronics
development beyond contracting a Logic MIDI for their 88 Piano key controller,
which they sold under their own and other brand names, the most desirable
model being the Stage version, built into a flight case with a lid on slide-off hinges.

if anyone here currently has an "in" with Fatar and can ask if their Roland contract
has been terminated ? that should be the definitive piece of the China shifted
production puzzle.

so now we may have pre-Chinese Rolands as well as pre-Chinese Hohners
being more desirable ?

too bad the Chinese (lack of) quality control over exported products does not
seem to extend to the War materials they are providing to Putin

 

[Alan Polivka]

It says "Made in China" on mine. I suppose that's confirmation enough?

I can tell you right away that in this case, Made in China is not a good thing. Several small QC issues with mine.

Made in China could be a bad thing indeed for V accordions, but I can tell you that friends of mine and I have also experienced multiple inexcusable QC issues from leading suppliers of accordion MIDI units made in Italy.