Pressing lots of bass buttons to close bellows during "solos"

[Ignacchitti]

I notice jazz players often doing a "technique" in the middle of solos, whereby they play a bit while pulling out the bellows normally, then instead of continuing to play while now closing the bellows normally, they press several bass buttons and rapidly close the bellows in between solo phrases, to then continue playing while opening the bellows again. In other words, the solo is solely or mostly played only opening the bellows. No air release button used, only a mash of many bass buttons.

What is the point of that? What is the advantage of doing that compared to playing both ways?

Examples:



Notice 0:36 to 1:03 in the video above Tony Verbiest does it at least 3 times



In the video above, just as one example take the piece from 0:25 onwards, in a matters of seconds Art Van Damme does it a few times.

 

[stickista]

I dunno, but its kinda cool (in small doses, I’d think.)
Sort of a breathy percussive effect.
Although I’m not sure I see VD doing it in that clip.

 

[SteveBox]

I doubt they are pushing "lots of bass buttons" as that would make a terrible noise. They must be using the air release button. Maybe they are lightly pushing some bass buttons, but not far enough to sound.

I'm no expert on this, but I've heard some people think an accordion sounds better on the pull. Obviously, you can only do this if there are silent phrases in the music.

 

[Ignacchitti]

I doubt they are pushing "lots of bass buttons" as that would make a terrible noise. They must be using the air release button. Maybe they are lightly pushing some bass buttons, but not far enough to sound.

I'm no expert on this, but I've heard some people think an accordion sounds better on the pull. Obviously, you can only do this if there are silent phrases in the music.

Indeed, it seems they are not pushing the buttons hard, the intention does not appear to be to make a loud cacophonous sound. Especially in the Art van Damme video one can see that the technique is almost inaudible in terms of hearing notes. With Verbiest one can hear the many notes a bit more loudly but still not pushing the buttons hard.

My theory is that the more buttons you push simultaneously (even if pushing them only lightly), the more the air dissipates/dilutes among them all, and thus the lower their volume (so no note will sound loudly). They will only hiss or slightly sound. For notes to sound loudly if one is playing many notes like that, a very forceful bellows movement would be needed.

On your separate note that some people think that the accordion sounds better on the pull, I had not heard about that. Interesting! I wonder why that could be!

 

[Ben-jammin]

You can frequently see players from the Bologna region of Italy do a similar thing. Usually I think they do this when the left hand is not amplified and the backing band is taking care of the accompaniment.

I think in this video he is using the air release but I know I’ve seen it being done with slamming many bass buttons.

 

[Dingo40]

If there's more than than one way of doing something, you'll soon find various groups championing the different ways.
This topic has been discussed in the forum several times already.
The technique (playing, chiefly the treble keyboard, exclusively on the draw) appears to be popular among accordionists from Bologna in Italy.
Personally, it seems rather faddish and a waste of the accordion's full potential.
But, each to his/her own!

 

[Ignacchitti]

If there's more than than one way of doing something, you'll soon find various groups championing the different ways.
This topic has been discussed in the forum several times already.
The technique (playing, chiefly the treble keyboard, exclusively on the draw) appears to be popular among accordionists from Bologna in Italy.
Personally, it seems rather faddish and a waste of the accordion's full potential.
But, each to his/her own!

Oh I did not know it had been discussed already! Apologies to forum folks if it's against etiquette to repost a topic
I tried to search for this topic on the Search button but did not know what keywords to use and found nothing.
If anyone knows what other thread(s) this topic was discussed in, could anyone direct me to there? I'd appreciate it a lot!!
Thanks!

 

[Dingo40]

Apologies to forum folks if it's against etiquette to repost a topic

No need to apologise!
We're happy to discuss anything as often as anyone's interested!

 

[Dingo40]

Here's a previous thread on the topic:
(I see I misattributed the style to Modena )

His fingers never leave his hands😀

Fast forward to about 1:30 (long winded introduction)

www.accordionists.info

 

[Dingo40]

One of our members lives in the home territory of this genre, I wonder if he'll chime in ?

 

[Ignacchitti]

Very interesting example, thanks Dingo40!
Yes, hopefully said member will chime in
I am especially curious about WHY one would play like that, in other words, is there any advantage for any particular purpose? If it transcends genres a bit and is used even in jazz...

 

[Ric46]

One of our members lives in the home territory of this genre, I wonder if he'll chime in ?

 

[Ric46]

Very interesting example, thanks Dingo40!
Yes, hopefully said member will chime in
I am especially curious about WHY one would play like that, in other words, is there any advantage for any particular purpose? If it transcends genres a bit and is used even in jazz...

I am from Piacenza (Emilia, Italy). Matteo Bensi posted by Ben and Valter Losi in the thread "His fingers never leave his hands" are both from Piacenza. I grew up with this kind of music (liscio) but I am a beginner accordionist. I asked why they play this way but... I don't understand I am sorry I can't help but if you have other questions maybe you are lucky here you can find more https://www.accordionists.info/threads/this-may-be-the-silliest-question-ever.12124/page-2

 

[Dingo40]

I just noticed, Walter Losi's lower bellows strap ( in his rendition of "Anna" in the clip) happens to be in the "locked" position all through the number!
I wonder whether this entire technique is intended to prevent the accordion bases muddying tha efforts of the bass instruments playing in the combo?

 

[Ric46]

I just noticed, Walter Losi's lower bellows strap ( in his rendition of "Anna" in the clip) happens to be in the "locked" position all through the number!
I wonder whether this entire technique is intended to prevent the accordion bases muddying tha efforts of the bass instruments playing in the combo?

I saw accordions with the lower bellows strap locked with a screw!

 

[Ventura]

by comparison, Diatonic Conjunto/Tex-Mex/Mariachi accordions
often times have had the reeds removed from the bass section entirely
(various reasons)
Diatonic players often need to "gulp air" so they can hit the next
one-way note

perhaps some of these fellas also had their bass reeds removed

then i would look at it more like a Vocalist who seeks to take a
deep breath before beginning some long passage.. in other words
one is always "positioning" to have the best run at that next phrase..

i can certainly see this in a Jazz context as AVD has some extreme
sequences of notes in very long and detailed phrases, so why not
position his bellows to the best spot before diving back in ?

in other words, not being done for some vague tonality reason,
just being done for simple logic towards best positioning for
the next "attack on the keys"

 

[Ventura]

I just noticed, Walter Losi's lower bellows strap ( in his rendition of "Anna" in the clip) happens to be in the "locked" position all through the number!
I wonder whether this entire technique is intended to prevent the accordion bases muddying tha efforts of the bass instruments playing in the combo?

hehe.. Dingo, a lot of us old Organ-Accordion players would leave our
lower strap locked, because we lived in fear of the snake of wires criss-crossing
along the lower folds would have more problems if they were stretched and flexed
out more then minimally necessary.. this was back when they needed a wire for each
note and pitch..

 

[Ignacchitti]

by comparison, Diatonic Conjunto/Tex-Mex/Mariachi accordions
often times have had the reeds removed from the bass section entirely
(various reasons)
Diatonic players often need to "gulp air" so they can hit the next
one-way note

perhaps some of these fellas also had their bass reeds removed

then i would look at it more like a Vocalist who seeks to take a
deep breath before beginning some long passage.. in other words
one is always "positioning" to have the best run at that next phrase..

i can certainly see this in a Jazz context as AVD has some extreme
sequences of notes in very long and detailed phrases, so why not
position his bellows to the best spot before diving back in ?

in other words, not being done for some vague tonality reason,
just being done for simple logic towards best positioning for
the next "attack on the keys"

Makes a lot of sense!

Funny how one's playing style (such as doing long detailed phrases) could lead to a crazy technique... Especially considering that many other phenomenal jazz players manage to sound great using both draw and push (Frank Marocco, Richard Galliano, etc.). I had not paid attention to phrase length but based on memory I think their phrases are most of the time not as long as Van Damme's indeed.

 

[Waldo]

When reading the initial post, I immediately thought of the Conjunto technique mentioned by Ventura. It would be possible to disable the "closing" reeds and still be able to play on the pull. Not being a Jazz appreciator, I have no comment on the Why part of the equation.

 

[murathan]

On the videos: Verbiest using it for effect. Better than empty air. Van damme uses bass mute so he doesnt need to release air from the up button. It may come from a habit of using diatonic accordions before. Another reason might be these accordions are modified for lightness to use only pulls. Push reeds are taken with the bass side also. Will make the accordion very light for hours of performance.