Piano or cromatic accordion?

[lucaluigi72]

Hallo I'm Luca from Italy
I have studied for some years piano and I love to play recorder. I like balkan, irish and folk musik.
I started to learn accordion in june renting a piano accordion but I'm attracted to learn cromatic accordion.
A friend of mine lent me a cromatic accordion 2 weeks ago and it is difficult to learn but not impossibile.
It is beautiful making progress but I'm afraid it will be really more difficult to improvise!
I would like to have some advice from piano and cromatic accordionists about

 

[lucaluigi72]

I would like to have some advice bout advantages and disadvantages of cromatic accordion.
For example my impression is that irish tunes could be easier to play with a cromatic accordion for jumps and speed they require.
Many thanks Luca

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hello Luca,

I am a member of a Folk Club, though I do play other genres of music as well as Folk. Some may have a different point of view, but my own choice of instrument is the Piano Accordion.

Both instruments have their devotees, and no-one is right or wrong. It is simply a matter of personal choice, as with many things in life. Whichever instrument you feel most comfortable playing is the right one for you.

All the musical genres you mention can be played on either instrument, so it is just a matter of personal preference.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[reivilos92]

I guess there is a misunderstanding. The main opposing categories are:
- chromatic vs diatonic
- when chromatic:
* piano (PA) vs buttons (CBA)
* free bass vs standard bass
...

I believe you are referring to piano vs buttons ?

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hello Olivier,

I had assumed that Luca was talking about piano V buttons, but did not want to contradict him so early on in his membership. I'm sure that Luca will quickly learn the correct terminology as he goes along.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[george garside]

I guess there is a misunderstanding. The main opposing categories are:
- chromatic vs diatonic
- when chromatic:
* piano (PA) vs buttons (CBA)
* free bass vs standard bass
...

have a look at accordion chat 10 oct under heading does accordion suite keys etc for my post giving an outline of the various so called diatonic systems, some of which are both diatonic and chromatic.

the favoured box for traad irish music is the BC button accordion or melodeon;.

for more info and the place to ask questions on diatonics and trad music have a look at melodeon.net ( linked to this forum)

As to piano box v continental chromatic for anybody without much piano keyboard experience I would definitely advise going for a C or B system chromatic box as the fingering (scales) are very easy to learn and on a 5 row box all keys can be played using one set of fingering. On a 3 row 3 sets of fingering are required.

george

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

Although the B/C accordion (diatonic chromatic) was the most popular type for playing Irish Trad. in Ireland, the younger players are just as much, if not more, into using the C#/D box popularised by people like Jackie Daly. et al.

From my recollections, having lived in Ireland for many years, I have never knowingly seen a CBA player there though I am sure they exist. Plenty of Piano Accordionists though.

Oh I know there are people who play Irish Trad on the CBA.... even some members of this forum... but just saying PA appears to have been more popular.

 

[george garside]

that's probably simply because in the UK and Ireland the piano box is far more common than the continental which has never been heavily marketed. The fact that a great many people taking up the accordion do so from a piano/keyboard/organ type background may also have something to do with it.

The continental chromatic is probably more suited to irish trad than the piano box due to the location of the black notes in relation to the white ones so to speak which should facilitate ornamentation?

george

 

[lucaluigi72]

I guess there is a misunderstanding. The main opposing categories are:
- chromatic vs diatonic
- when chromatic:
* piano (PA) vs buttons (CBA)
* free bass vs standard bass
...

I believe you are referring to piano vs buttons ?

Sorry, I wanted to refer to the cromatic button accordion in comparison with the piano cromatic one. I know it is cromatic also the piano accordion but I was not sure that button accordion was the correct name in english. I have always seen it named as cromatic accordion. In Italian I prefer to call it fisarmonica a bottoni

 

[lucaluigi72]

Even if I play piano I'm trying to play a cromatic button accordion because I'm a beginner with accordion and the button system I think it have interesting advantages.
What I dont know is what type of disadvantages have the button cromatic system.
For example it is possible that it will be more difficult to make improvvisations.

 

[JerryPH]

My personal opinion... if I was 4-8 years old again and starting over, it would be to my advantage to go chromatic (button) accordion. They pack more buttons in a smaller area, permitting more complex and faster movements. I am thinking from the perspective of a person that would be in to classical music and the instrument would also be a Free Bass.

I started on piano accordion because there were no button accordion teachers around in my area and my parents had a strong preference for the piano accordion. I then moved to Free Bass piano accordion and realized that I could do everything except the top 5% of the most difficult items like extremely wide stretches and ultra fast smooth chromatic scales, and so I never missed being a piano accordion player.

Today, at age 57, I have no interest in switching and can honestly state that I am not missing ANYTHING by being a piano accordion player, as I wouldn't take advantage of anything that the chromatic accordion could offer at my age and current level of proficiency. Basically, if I changed today, and practiced 4-6 hours a day, in 5+ years I would be EXACTLY where I am today, technically speaking, and that's a lot of time lost for basically no gain.

So I say... it depends on several factors like:
- what are your personal preferences?
- do you have local teachers in the system you want?
- what are your ultimate goals?

If all you are doing is playing folk music, that can be done on practically ANY instrument, however if you are striving for high-end classical music proficiency, the button accordion is the way to go. If I was to put a grade in it, I would have to say that anything up to a conservatory level grade 8-9 is just as easily done on piano accordion as it is on a button accordion... it's that last grade or two where the button accordion does things that are harder to do on a piano accordion.

 

[george garside]

I can't thing of any particular disadvantages or put it another way the advantages outweigh any disadvantages!
Also many top professional players use the continental chromatic system which they surely would not do if it had disadvantages.

Coming from a piano background will however mean taking a step back for a while while you get the hang of it.

george

 

[lucaluigi72]

I'm playng a lot the button cromatic accordion in these days and I'm beginning to trust it will be my way. It is only 2 weeks that I play it just trying improvvisations and stairs and it seems to me I'm doing fast progresses.

 

[george garside]

good ! the more you play it the easier it will get!

george

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hello Luca,

You seem to be leaning more toward the button-box and, as I said earlier, all that matters is that you are comfortable with it.

I wish you very good luck with your endeavours, and sincerely hope that you will keep us informed of your progress.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[dunlustin]

(stairs = scales? - just trying to help)
Are there any disadvantages to choosing the CBA (Chromatic)?
Not if you live where they are easy to find and maintain.
To explore some advantages, print out a keyboard and look at the way chords and scales are formed.
The regularity is something many people find very useful.
Later, having more than one way to play a group of notes can also be helpful.

 

[lucaluigi72]

I live not far from Stradella and I'm renting my piano accordion from Beltrami, a good piano and button accordion maker. I think I will not have problems with manintenance!

 

[debra]

Sorry to come in "late in the game". I was performing at a concert yesterday and then processing recordings and photos...

My wife and I have played the piano accordion since childhood and switched to button accordion 10 years ago. There were two main motivators: getting a good quality convertor instrument that wasn't huge (all good convertor PAs are huge) and learning the technique required to play an accordina (a wind instrument that works a bit like a melodica but sounds more like a harmonica). It was difficult to make the switch but now we are very happy. I now have an accordion with 64 notes on the keyboard side (and 58 on the bass side). You can never have too many notes!
What you cannot do on the CBA that you can on PA is a white-key-glissando. (And on a PA you cannot do a chromatic glissando.) On the CBA you can cover much larger distances, like playing two notes simultaneously that are 2 octaves apart.

There are top players on both systems. Enjoy what you like best!

 

[Anyanka]

Im playng a lot the button cromatic accordion in these days and Im beginning to trust it will be my way. It is only 2 weeks that I play it just trying improvvisations and stairs and it seems to me Im doing fast progresses.

It sounds like youre already finding your groove on the CBA - go for it!

I started on piano accordion and switched to buttons after 4 years. No regrets

 

[TomBR]

Just adding a bit on LucaLuigi's specific question about improvisation. It would seem obvious that there are two parts to improvisation,
First - being able to think of the musical notes you want, as if you were singing it, and,
Second - being able to play those notes on your instrument.

BUT - I think there is often a third aspect which is that the instrument itself may help you so that an instrumental improvisation is easier than it would be to sing - that is because you will often want to base what you do on a limited number of notes. All twelve notes of the scale are too many for improvisation!

One method of learning improvisation is by only playing the notes of a pentatonic scale. If someone else is playing a chord sequence in F# major you will have an easy start to improvise on piano keyboard because the black notes are the pentatonic scale. Just play black notes! (Add a couple of "blue notes" and you will be doing well!)

But, you don't want to play in F# major all the time. When you are playing another key on piano keyboard, not F# major, you will have to know and remember the appropriate notes of the scale you want to play in, and which are white keys and which are black keys. That is fine when you have that skill, and you may already have it if you have been playing piano for years.

On the chromatic keyboard, all you have to remember is the pattern of buttons for the scale you want to play in. Once you have made a start you don't even need to know what key you are playing in! You can get started by ear, then just play on that pattern of buttons.

Similarly with chords and arpeggios - on piano keyboard you have to know all chord/arpeggio shapes you want to play for each key you want to play in, and where the black and white notes are. On chromatic you just need to know the patterns of buttons. You can move those patterns around, start in different places, and they always stay the same.

In the real world there may not actually be such a big difference between button and piano keyboards, but I think the button keyboard does have advantages for anyone who wants to improvise.
Tom