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Old vs New

Here is a recent example made by Mengascini under the Borsini marque, specifically "for the Wide Musette Lover!". Model name a nod to Scottish/Irish musette, the "Borsini Shanty."


Surely over 15 cents each way, any estimated guesses?



 
Below, for example, is an MMM set at -18/+18. It's dubbed "classic French tuning," and I assure you, old-fashioned "classic Scottish tuning" was often wider than this:



Here is a recent example made by Mengascini under the Borsini marque, specifically "for the Wide Musette Lover!". Model name a nod to Scottish/Irish musette, the "Borsini Shanty."


Surely over 15 cents each way, any estimated guesses?





Hi OB, I've listened to the videos of the Ottavianelli and the Borsini. I've got to be honest and say I don't think either instrument would be my cup of tea... not for Scottish music. Perhaps, with respect, they were made more for the American and Dutch markets.

However, when it comes to Scottish musette there is more than one kind of Scottish sound. I like a double cassotto musette tuned to somewhere around +/-18 or thereabouts, though it all depends on the instrument and obtaining the right sound. The Scottish dance band specification is usually double cassotto, musette and tuning preferences are very personal, some like it stronger than others. Many ceilidh bands (that define themselves on the basis that they either don't play for Scottish Country Dances and/or they have more upbeat style) often seem to follow the general cassotto & musette formula.

If I may briefly interrupt myself and go back to say - when it comes to the old Scottish sounds, those are to be found in the Ranco Supervox and Hohner Morinos of yesteryear and a few other models too.

However, regarding new accordions, a brand that I think "understands" the various Scottish sounds and music in the modern era is probably Manfrini. The Esperto model (LMMM) with double cassotto and a rich musette is a fair estimation of a dance band sound. I hear people talking a lot about the "cents", but to me this measurement is less important than hearing the overall sound envelope - getting the right "ring". Perhaps it requires generations of Scottish ears being bombarded by the drive of accordion & fiddle dance music to appreciate this sound fully.

A dance band musette sound:



There is another type of ceilidh sound that is perhaps slighty more inspired by the traditions of the Gael, the west coast and the islands. I think it has a different type of musette, often a smaller, non cassotto accordion - a little brighter, maybe more narrowly tuned. Some say the non cassotto musette mimics the tone of the pipes better than the fuller dance band musette.

Here's a modern ceilidh type accordion a la Highlands & Islands:



There is also a more Celtic/folk type of instrument, that will often be smaller, with moderate musette (MMM), non cassotto, or even without musette altogether (LMM) and a pronounced violin tuning. This style instrument seems to be popular with musical mixologists producing very attractive Celtic cocktails - maybe a Highland/Irish/Appalachian/Cape Breton blend - heady stuff indeed!

Celtic/folk accordion with midi bass:



I guess it come down to personal choice at the end of the day (I'd probably choose the Esperto though). :)
 
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Ha, I wasn't advocating for any certain sound setup, just documenting that yes, musette settings of well over 15 cents plus/minus do indeed exist and are in use by some, contrary to statements upthread.
 
I wasn't advocating for any certain sound setup, just documenting that yes, musette settings of well over 15 cents plus/minus do indeed exist
I understand... (y)

Hey OB, you sound like a person that really loves accordions. If you could choose any three accordions, new or old, whatever you like, for your most favoured genres, what instruments would you select and why?
 
I understand... (y)

Hey OB, you sound like a person that really loves accordions. If you could choose any three accordions, new or old, whatever you like, for your most favoured genres, what instruments would you select and why?

I'll bite! One is a respectful nod to Scotland with the Shand Morino. This gives the Irish B/C an upgrade by adding the Stradella basses, and the C+ row, so pretty much every chord is possible. Now I can (in theory - my own ability limits this) play most Celtic music, plus accompany with chords or bass, as the 8 bass buttons are limiting.

Another would be a Savoy "Acadian" in "C". The accordion that brought international acclaim to folk music I grew up around.

And finally an Irish-American 6 or 8 voice in "D". Because, well, have you heard them? Like the voice of an Irish dance goddess.
 
That's a combo-and-a-half!
Colourful tones for
Scottish, Irish, Cajun dance.
Design-forward button boxes
old and new.

Who could ask for more...
 
That's a combo-and-a-half!
Colourful tones for
Scottish, Irish, Cajun dance.
Design-forward button boxes
old and new.

Who could ask for more...

Thanks! I suppose I like what I like, only with more of it.

I can't imagine asking for more if I somehow ended up with those. (I don't quite get why there aren't more "Shand Morino" type copies in the diatonic world? What's the downside, besides weight? Which is real, and I like my 8lb box. Worse though, very few of those copies are in the USA.)

But if one were to be so ungrateful as to ask for more...

Some Cajun builders have come out with Cajun one rows that have an extra set of stops to change the key. So, there are six stops on the right hand, and change the key from C to D, along with voicing stops.

So...what if you did this with an Irish American style six voice L MMMM H, but it could be D or G? (I admittedly know little of the technical challenges this might pose.)
 
I think there are some, like the Fantini Sharino or Manfrini Artisan 3 Row.
I've read about them, but they are rare in the USA. There are another couple of look alikes with a Super Salas B/C/C+ from probably the 50s or 60s, but those sellers won't ship to the USA. Thus avoiding "the justification problem" that surrounds some purchases.

Your best plan in the US is to buy a PA of some sort at thrift store, or garage sale or something like that, and see if you like it, and either endure the flaws, fix them, or upgrade. If you go places like here before buying, you might end with something quite playable.

Of course that's exactly what I didn't do. I dove right in to diatonic world, and if you want to be part of a niche of a niche, it's a great thing.
 
I understand... (y)

Hey OB, you sound like a person that really loves accordions. If you could choose any three accordions, new or old, whatever you like, for your most favoured genres, what instruments would you select and why?

Just caught up with this--Ha, picking only 3 would be nigh impossible! i've had super-nice bisonoric B/C bisonorics but have returned to CBA and PA for just about any genre. I listen to some selected classical stuff but have no interest in playing classical music on the accordion--it's really mostly world roots/trad/folk genres that grab me for accordion. I don't like big, heavy instruments and don't need or want one.

So, if we're talking wish lists, I'd like one of the few very nice Italian made 3-voice LMM CBAs that are more compact, like the dimensions of a 30/72 or 30/60 PA, and about 15-16 pounds. Saltarelle and Castagnari offer them and I'd love to have a Bourroche or Magica, but the prices are eye-watering. Most other Italian LMM CBAs are 96 bass, taller, and heavier, and I'm not going there. Perhaps I'll have to split my Italian CBAs in two and switch between a compact LM for tango/klezmer/Balkan and a compact MM for Irish/Scottish/musette/French swing. In PAs I like 30 and 26 key Italian MMs and 26-key Italian LMMs. Eventually I'll probably find my way to a very nice 30/72 LMM PA by Beltuna or Serenellini or such, but there's no rush.

In short, no yearnings for Golas, Prestige Leaders, or any of the Refrigerators. i get a kick out of reading people go on about them here, but you couldn't pay me to lug one around. I see it dawned on Phil Cunningham-- he has some very nice compact PAs.

I'd also like a very nice MMM 72 bass or 60 bass but not super wide for wetness. I like somewhere between 9 and 12 cents-ish.
 
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I still have a couple of nifty Castagnari, Maugein, and Mengascini B/Cs, and thought for a while about a custom B/C or Bb/B/C with 3 unisonoric bass rows (bass, counter bass, and chord row with the thirds removed or removable).

But by then it was dawning on me that small CBAs or PAs would do the job as well and better than any custom- augmented bisonoric/diatonic.

One of the cool things about Scottish traditional music is the absence of the weird, blinkered stigmatizing of unisonoric accordions you see in some other trad/folk circles such as Irish or French balfolk. It's not what you choose to play, it's how you play it, after all.
 
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I've read about them, but they are rare in the USA. There are another couple of look alikes with a Super Salas B/C/C+ from probably the 50s or 60s, but those sellers won't ship to the USA. Thus avoiding "the justification problem" that surrounds some purchases.

Your best plan in the US is to buy a PA of some sort at thrift store, or garage sale or something like that, and see if you like it, and either endure the flaws, fix them, or upgrade. If you go places like here before buying, you might end with something quite playable.

Of course that's exactly what I didn't do. I dove right in to diatonic world, and if you want to be part of a niche of a niche, it's a great thing.
I've seen a lot of British Chromatics over the years by Hohner, Paolo Soprani, Excelsior, Serenellini, Fantini, Manfrini, Super Salas... The vintage Shand Excelsior was a really nice box and the Shand Morinos were the sound of a nation... the dance band sound, that is. Hey, maybe a well orchestrated visit to Scotland might just help you find a great accordion. :unsure:
 
I believe the Manfrini concern is well-regarded. I do know people in the US who have Manfrini 2-rows and swear by them. Their B/C/C# model seems pretty impressive. Ordering one and going the import route might not be such a bad idea.
 
I've seen a lot of British Chromatics over the years by Hohner, Paolo Soprani, Excelsior, Serenellini, Fantini, Manfrini, Super Salas... The vintage Shand Excelsior was a really nice box and the Shand Morinos were the sound of a nation... the dance band sound, that is. Hey, maybe a well orchestrated visit to Scotland might just help you find a great accordion. :unsure:

Maybe the Excelsior will show up in it's "native" country?

I like the idea of a well orchestrated visit to Scotland. Beware, I might actually take you up on it, and of course, Oregon is a beautiful place with lots to do, too, with Seattle and Vancouver BC close (by US standards anyway).
 
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