Newbie Question about PA Keyboards

[Pianoman1]

Being a piano player I have experienced the different touches for acoustic - digital and midi keyboards and the differences they make in playing. Does this happen with PAs - are some easier to use then others - just a thought Thanks

 

[NigelB]

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[debra]

The hardest part coming from piano to accordion is that you are used to press harder for louder sound and softer for softer sound. The result may be that to play softly you may end up not putting enough pressure on the keys and when you play loudly you may be pressing the keys to hard and they may make more of a clacking noise.
I played the piano for 5 years before starting on the accordion and after over 45 years of playing the accordion I sometimes still use different pressure on the keys depending on volume.
Regarding size, PA keys are always narrower than piano keys. The most recent accordions with awkwardly narrow black keys are the Hohner Morino VI series. The with of the white keys is reasonably standard but indeed ladies accordions have significantly narrower keys: about one key per octave difference. Modern large (45 keys or more) PA keyboards have keys that are just slightly narrower: about one key over the entire width of the keyboard. This is insignificant: I never had a problem going from say a Bugari 285/ARS (41 keys) to a Bugari 289/ARS/C5 (45 keys).
Note that with CBA the problem is much larger. There are many different button sizes. I have a Bugari 505 CBA and a Pigini C40 basson both with large buttons. I also have a Bugari 508/ARS/C and a Hohner Morino Artiste XS both with similar size smaller buttons. And I just got a Bugari 540/ARS/C with even smaller buttons. Finally my accordina has again significantly smaller buttons. So all in all many more different sizes than with PA.

 

[donn]

I'm kind of surprised that the answer seems to be "no."

I mean, for sure they are utterly different from a piano. (Though I guess velocity sensitive would be a technical possibility in electronic accordion-like instruments.) I get that key widths have been known to vary. But different touches, from one accordion to the next, apparently not so much that it's an issue to anyone? I don't really know why I'd have expected a difference, but I know for example with the saxophone, players sure notice.

 

[TomBR]

Note that with CBA the problem is much larger. There are many different button sizes. I have a Bugari 505 CBA and a Pigini C40 basson both with large buttons. I also have a Bugari 508/ARS/C and a Hohner Morino Artiste XS both with similar size smaller buttons. And I just got a Bugari 540/ARS/C with even smaller buttons. Finally my accordina has again significantly smaller buttons. So all in all many more different sizes than with PA.

I am very surprised Paul, I thought that when people started playing CBA they had to sign a piece of paper promising that they would never criticise the CBA in comparison with the PA! :shock:
Surely you mean that one of the advantages of CBA is that there are different button sizes available!!!
Tom

(I included a dancing banana in the original version of this post but it was too annoying!)

 

[NigelB]

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[Pianoman1]

Thanks for the informative responses I was not aware of the different key widths Playing PA has reinforced my own piano technique of using level forearm and wrist and the tips of the fingers to avoid the splash effect and curving the fingers, not the wrist to obtain the correct angle for playing

 

[nagant27]

Something like this:




I have always been amazed by this video.

 

[Pianoman1]

In my dreams yep

During my stay at a London UK based hostel for musicians ( a piano in every room) I met a number of Leeds piano prizewinners
and concert artists who dazzled everyone. After a while when walking around the very very good ones or the not so good stuck out from the general level

 

[rbs]

I have a cheap Chinese piano-accordion, and an expensive Italian one. The Chinese one is hard work to play - I only use it for playing Carols out-of-doors at Christmas. The Italian one I can play for hours without my fingers feeling tired. I imagine that this might be typical.

 

[JerryPH]

If the question is there a difference in feel when playing different piano accordions, oh I can guarantee you that there can be huge differences. The size of the keys, the pressure needed to press and the rebound speed and of course the feel of the keys is all day and night difference between my Elka 83 and the Hohner Morino VI N. The Elka is lighter on all fronts, easier to play but to attain highest velocity cleanly when playing fast notes is much more difficult. With the Hohner, one has to work harder at everything and the right hand literally plays cleaner and faster. I can run scales and arpeggios at least 20-25% faster, but it just takes so much more effort and the fingers and arms tire out much earlier. It just feels like a high precision instrument, but the price is the amount of power one has to put out to make things happen... but when they do happen, to me it feels almost magical.

 

[debra]

Every cassotto instrument requires more effort than a non-cassotto instrument. There is simply mechanically more material to move when you press the key and also a bit more pressure to ensure that the valves in- and outside the cassotto close properly. And because the Morino VI is a 5 reed instrument there are 5 holes to "plug", again a bit more pressure needed. Obviously a more modern and newer instrument will be lighter than a 30-40 year old instrument and technology. I have a Morino Artiste XS, newer technology than the N series, but still a large, heavy 5-reed instrument. It clearly requires more effort than my newer Bugari instruments. Technology does advance considerably. (I have a 5 reed Bugari with cassotto, so in theory it could require as much force as the Morino, yet it is much lighter.) You are right that the effort required certainly does not imply that the heavier instrument that requires more force could not be played just as fast or even faster than a lighter instrument. The higher force that is required may partly be due to the instrument reacting faster to key release so you can actually play faster.
None of this is specific to PA keyboards. My Morino Artiste XS and Bugari 505 ARS are in fact instruments that use PA mechanics, but have buttons, unlike Bayan style instruments that have the keyboard more forward, using different mechanics.

 

[JerryPH]

Thanks Paul, there are very few posts that you make where I don't learn something new all the time.

 

[debra]

Don't just take my word for anything. You might learn things that are actually wrong... I am a keen amateur (playing for over 45 years and doing minor repairs and fine tuning for about 8 years) but certainly not a pro. And as a result some things I infer from what I do know may be wrong inferences... so take everything I post with at least a grain of salt...