NEW Hohnica sour note question

[Montanagirl]

So I decided to buy a used Hohnica from Germany instead of a new Chinese one.  

It is as advertised, the bellows compression very good and everything working well enough.  But the first E (E1?) sounds sour in musette.  It sounds okay on what I guess are bandoneon and clarinet but together it's rather foul.   nothing else jumped out at me but my ear is not that good either.  

I took it to a repair guy hoping he'd go over it thoroughly but he called up and asked what was wrong with it.  I had to explain.  He thought the problem was just a leather and would replace it, but he ended up punting, I guess, dropping it off for me no charge no change in sound.

Is there something about the musette that would cause the sour sound?  Can it be fixed?

 

[maugein96]

So I decided to buy a used Hohnica from Germany instead of a new Chinese one.  

It is as advertised, the bellows compression very good and everything working well enough.  But the first E (E1?) sounds sour in musette.  It sounds okay on what I guess are bandoneon and clarinet but together it's rather foul.   nothing else jumped out at me but my ear is not that good either.  

I took it to a repair guy hoping he'd go over it thoroughly but he called up and asked what was wrong with it.  I had to explain.  He thought the problem was just a leather and would replace it,  but he ended up punting, I guess, dropping it off for me no charge no change in sound.

Is there something about the musette that would cause the sour sound?  Can it be fixed?

Hi,

Chances are that atmospheric conditions in Germany were different from those in your area at the time of shipping, and the freight compartment pressure during the flight may have caused the reed to go out of tune. Hopefully it will settle down after a few weeks of its own accord, but if it doesn't it can be fixed.  

It's just a matter of your repair guy working out which reed is out of tune or misbehaving. Tell him whether it is sounding weird when you push or pull the bellows and he should be able to identify the issue more easily.

I'm working on the principle that the few Hohnica accordions I've seen are three voice LMM. Culprit will be one of your sharp tuned M reeds for the note concerned. There are two reeds for each note in every reed bank, one for push and one for pull, but it will usually only be one reed that requires attention.  

It could also be something as simple as a tiny sliver of wood or metal being stuck in the reed blade stopping it from vibrating properly, but if you're not sure of what you're doing, best not try to fix it yourself. 

There are some members who could give you a more technical explanation as to what the issue is, but I only play for a hobby, and my official diagnosis is "dodgy reed". I have a little Hohner like that which had a similar problem, after traveling more miles in a few months than I've travelled in my 67 year old lifetime. China to Germany, to USA, then UK, all in a flimsy gig bag. Left it in its case for about 6 months and it's perfectly in tune now. 

Just pretend you don't care and it might snap out of it!

 

[debra]

As far as I know Hohnica accordions are all Chinese. They are made using the Hohner design, but made in a purely Chinese-based factory, not using the old Hohner machines that were transported to China to start making accordions there.
So I believe a "Hohnica from Germany" is not an accordion that's really made in Germany. It only passed through Germany...
If there is an expert here who really knows that the story about Hohnica is different from what I remember, please let us know.

 

[Montanagirl]

OK thanks. Repair guy is reputed to be a fine player himself and he didn't seem to think it was a problem. Plus I guess it's not like I brought him a fine Scandalli or something.

"Dodgy reed": I like that.

 

[JIM D.]

Yes all Honica's are made in China
Hohner is now owned by the Chinese and all their models are now imports from China or Italy.
These accordions may say MADE IN GERMANY on them . But this is just a continuation of a practice that Hohner has used for years to justify their inflated prices for the unaware.
In the US we call this practice CONSUMER FRAUD !!!

---

The Chinese use a poor quality glue to fasten leather or plastic valves to the reeds. If a valve has come loose, it very well could a reed to sound out of tune. Take it to your repair tech - a simple fix.

 

[maugein96]

OK thanks.  Repair guy is reputed to be a fine player himself and he didn't seem to think  it was a problem.  Plus I guess it's not like I brought him a fine Scandalli or something.

"Dodgy reed":  I like that.

The way I read this one was that you bought a used Hohnica accordion from Germany, rather than buy a new Chinese instrument. 

It has now been explained that you actually bought a used Chinese instrument, and I never picked up on that from your initial post. 

Basically, I wouldn't worry about where it came from, but just play the hell out of it until you get to the stage where you can decide if you want a better one. 

Nearly 40 years ago I was friendly with a semi pro accordionist who played a top of the range Paolo Soprani PA (piano accordion).  

He had been in Paris round about 1970, and used to rave about a player he had heard in one of the bals musette (Parisian dance halls). I've had a lifelong interest in French accordions and used to buy a lot of French accordion cassette tapes (CDs weren't around then) from his shop. I asked him what make the fantastic accordion was and he said it was a Baile B system chromatic. I was pretty familiar with the accordion makes then available in France, and just assumed that a Baile was a make that had gone out of production.

Turned out the accordion with "fantastic tone" was made in the same country as your Hohnica, but I do believe accordions that were made in China were perhaps of better quality in those days. 

My little Hohner Nova CBA accordion, which was made for the French market, had a quality control label printed in German, that was obviously intended to dupe the buyer into believing the instrument had been subject of quality control in Trossingen. I've studied a map of China, and can find no such place. 

I bought it from a dealer in the USA, and saved nearly $500 on the French retail price. It does the same job as my top of the range French instruments, but you need to swallow that quality control label, and not tell anybody you saw it. Of course the quality is not the same as my bank breaking French made instruments (with Italian reeds, and with body shell, nylon, and plastic components sourced from the Republic of Anonymous), but I wouldn't throw it in the dumpster for at least another year until I got my money's worth from it. I was looking for a lighter instrument and it certainly fitted that bill. I need to tie it to one of my other accordions to stop it blowing away! 

Everybody needs to start somewhere, and even those of us who think they know what they're doing often get it all wrong. I'm one of the few who would actually admit that fact.  

Enjoy it, wherever it came from.

 

[Montanagirl]

OK it's made in China. Well I got ripped off then. It has already been to a repairman, as I wrote in my post, so I won't bother him about it again.

Compared to my new Aschat it sounds and smells pretty trashy. The bass side is almost metallic sounding. Is there any wood in there at all?

I think I'll stick to new boxes from now on.

 

[Dingo40]

"I think I'll stick to new boxes from now on."

Just remember that a very large proportion of " new" boxes are made in China! 

( Not that there's anything wrong with that    )

 

[debra]

Not all Chinese accordions are complete rubbish. Some brands have been in the business of making accordions for a long time and have learned by now how to make usable instruments. Baile mentioned earlier in this thread is one of these older brands and what I have seen (and heard) from them wasn't half bad. Parrot is also becoming quite experienced. Such instruments are certainly usable for beginners and can keep you going for quite a while.
But there are others... A few days ago a post appeared on Facebook of someone trying to get 750 euro for a small CBA from Golden Cup. I may not know nearly all Chinese brands, but Golden Cup is the worst I have ever seen, by a large margin. Trying to find a good accordion at a bargain price is always going to be an "adventure" to say the least...

 

[Dingo40]

Paul,

"Not all Chinese accordions are complete rubbish..."

I guess this is one that isn't rubbish (Parrot?)



Another look: (Can't make out the name on the instrument)

45 treble keys? :huh:

 

[maugein96]

OK it's made in China. Well I got ripped off then.   It has already been to a repairman, as I wrote in my post, so I won't bother him about it again.  

Compared to my new Aschat it sounds and smells pretty trashy.   The bass side is almost metallic sounding.  Is there any wood in there at all?

I think I'll stick to new boxes from now on.

Hi,

You were only ripped off if you paid a lot of money for the accordion in the belief that it was made in Germany.

Used Hohnicas with 72 basses usually sell in the UK for about $800. 

My Cavagnolo Vedette 5 has been in more clubs than Frank Sinatra, and smelled as though it had smoked 100 cigarettes a day during its long hard life with its previous owner. The situation was, that as an amateur player, I couldn't have afforded  to shell out $15,000 for a new one, but $1200 for one that had seen better days was too much of a temptation for me to resist. I have other accordions in better condition, but the chances of me finding another Cavagnolo like that one in the UK were nigh on impossible. 

In time the tobacco smell dissipated and it now only smells like it had the odd cigar. As an ex pipe smoker the smell wasn't too much of an issue for me. I'm no expert on accordion reeds, although a good few of them sound as though they are nearing the end of their useful life. The mechanics of the instrument are superb, and it was overhauled before I bought it. The accordion dates from 1978, and those reeds will still be capable of playing a tune long after the time when I can't.

It sometimes pays to buy an old instrument from a recognised "quality" manufacturer, even although it has seen better days. I appreciate there probably won't be many of those in Montana, but it seems there are one or two stores in the US that offer decent online services for used accordions. Of course they won't necessarily be the cheapest around, but they should be able to advise you on what's good and what isn't. 

Even half decent new accordions are very expensive, and always have been. I've bought two in my lifetime, and regretted the purchase of them both. They carry no guarantee that they'll make you a better player.

 

[Dingo40]

John,
"My Cavagnolo Vedette 5 has been in more clubs than Frank Sinatra, and smelled as though it had smoked 100 cigarettes a day during its long hard life with its previous owner. "

Loved the story!

My $20 (downpayment) Busilacchio was like that: it took about five years of airing to eliminate the tobacco smoke and neat toothpaste on a rag to remove the nicotine stains   

But it all came good in the end, and at least I haven't ever had any issues with moths in the felt pallets!

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

For all those who are trying to avoid buying Chinese instruments, I have news for you. Check this out by all means, but China is the biggest producer of musical instruments in the World.

The biggest producer of accordions is Pearl River, who also make Steinway & Yamaha Pianos under licence. Whatever the decals on your accordion says, it is either completely Chinese made, or contains components made in a Chinese factory. Of course there are the odd one or two European manufacturers who build their own accordions, but they are in a tiny minority.

It is entirely up to the buyer; you can pay more for a Chinese instrument with a European sounding name, or pay much less for a very similar instrument with a less desirable badge. Either way ...... you get a Chinese instrument.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[maugein96]

John,
"My Cavagnolo Vedette 5 has been in more clubs than Frank Sinatra, and smelled as though it had smoked 100 cigarettes a day during its long hard life with its previous owner. "

Loved the story!

My $20 (downpayment) Busilacchio was like that: it took about five years of airing to eliminate the tobacco smoke and neat toothpaste on a rag to remove the nicotine stains   

But it all came good in the end, and at least I haven't ever had any issues with moths in the felt pallets!

When I first started out the only way to buy an accordion for most of us was to pay it up in instalments. You knew you were in there with the big boys when your accordion cost more per month than your car. I never made it that far up the ladder, but many mortgaged their souls to buy the latest and greatest boxes on the market. 

25 years ago I managed to acquire my pride and joy, a Maugein mini sonora. It was a used model, but I still had to pay £3000 GBP for it then, and they're "only" about €9000 Euros these days. Don't know why they have become so cheap!

Fortunately it hadn't smoked much during its time with the previous owner and its lungs are still in great nick. Maugein was the "go to" accordion for the old three voice French musette players, until Andre Verchuren switched from Maugein to Fratelli Crosio, and demand became so great for Crosios that they opened up an assembly and repair "factory" in Paris.

If you believe in record sale statistics, The Beatles sold about 174 million records worldwide. Poor old Verchu only managed to sell 50 million in France alone, with an estimated further 20 million elsewhere. Considering there were 4 Beatles and Verchu was a solo performer, he probably didn't do too badly for what some accomplished French accordionists reckoned was a third rate player. 

The three fingered wonder known as "Aimable" (he had 5 fingers but only used 3) wasn't far behind him. I read in the French press that one of his jackets cost more than his most expensive accordion. 

My one and only suit cost £79 GBP last year, so I suppose that doesn't give me much scope for buying a decent accordion at all. I had to buy the suit for my daughter's wedding, and my wife told the salesman just to find something that suited me regardless of the price. I think his parting words were "Madam, spending any more on a guy that looks like him would be a pure waste of money!"

 

[Pipemajor]

John,
"My Cavagnolo Vedette 5 has been in more clubs than Frank Sinatra, and smelled as though it had smoked 100 cigarettes a day during its long hard life with its previous owner. "

Loved the story!

My $20 (downpayment) Busilacchio was like that: it took about five years of airing to eliminate the tobacco smoke and neat toothpaste on a rag to remove the nicotine stains   

But it all came good in the end, and at least I haven't ever had any issues with moths in the felt pallets!

Years ago I bought a " basket case " Maugein 3 row CBA from Marseilles in France which smelt of Gauloises cigarettes.
I loved that smell even as a non smoker   . It has an "Accordeon Club de France " sticker on the front and I can only guess the number of smoky clubs it had been played in.
Anyway it arrived at my house in France in a bin bag inside a cardboard box , which rattled when I picked it up, so you can guess the state of it.
I wasn't too worried as I paid less than €100 for it and it was advertised as " in need of some tuning"
It probably turned out to be one of my better buys as I taught myself to tune and repair accordions on it and it kept me occupied for 
weeks ( nay Months ) and eventually turned out to be quite a nice playing box although the small bellows take a bit of getting used to after my bigger boxes.

 

[Dingo40]

Thanks PM!

My Busilacchio too had several broken reeds rattling about inside the bellows but, eventually, like the agean stables, bit by bit, we got it together, and it plays and sounds quite well.   

Of course, I was lucky to have available several good repairers willing to tackle it. 

 

[Montanagirl]

"You were only ripped off if you paid a lot of money for the accordion in the belief that it was made in Germany."

Yes the ad said Made in Germany. As it is I can't prove one way or the other.

Anyway I wouldn't mind cigarette smell but this is more of a musty thrift shop smell.

Would it help to stretch it out in the basement for a few months?

 

[Pipemajor]

"You were only ripped off if you paid a lot of money for the accordion in the belief that it was made in Germany."

Yes the ad said Made in Germany.   As it is I can't prove one way or the other.

Anyway I wouldn't mind cigarette smell but this is more of  a musty thrift shop smell.

Would it help to stretch it out in the basement for a few months?

Sunlight is good for getting rid of odours. I have left a few accordion bellows out in the sun over the years. Don't leave the complete accordion out as it may melt the wax holding the reeds in place.
A fabric deodorizer such as Febreze can also help.

 

[debra]

We're drifting off-topic here, going from Hohnica to getting rid of musty thrift shop smells...
But here are a few tips:
1) Clean everything you can access carefully. For instance, first clean the case (celluloid) with benzine (not gasoline, but a cleaning agent), then with a furniture polish like "Pronto" or "Pledge".
2) If you can disassemble everything to clean it that's even better, but at least you should use some compressed air to clean under the keyboard and throughout the bass mechanism compartment.
3) A fabric deodorizer helps for the bellows.
4) Clean the case or bag (if the accordion has one) inside and out (it can probably survive the use of water and soap).
5) Put coffee grains in cotton bags and place them inside the accordion (wherever there is room). Then place the accordion in the case or bag and leave for 2 weeks. Then replace the coffee and repeat... a lot of the smell should be gone after maybe 2 or 3 months.
6) Air out the accordion by putting it in parts (treble, bellow, bass) in a well-ventilated room or even outside under cover in warm (but not hot) weather.
It may take repeating steps over and over again, but the smell should eventually disappear, with any luck within a year or two. (This is no joke, it really can take this long, and in some cases the smell may never really disappear a 100%.)

 

[Dingo40]

"Would it help to stretch it out in the basement for a few months?"

MG,
Personally, I would find the driest warm (below 40 dogs C) space in your property (in my case I used the garage) and lay out the accordion (in shade) , working the bellows with the air button several times daily.
If it has a storage case, leave it open there as well.
Be patient: it will take weeks! Like airing a house after smokers have moved out, but it will happen.

---

Paul,
Reading your post, I can't help thinking of the "Seinfeld " episode where Elaine is at the hairdresser's having the dreadful B.O. removed from her hair ( "...and then we'll wash it and rinse it in tomato juice...")

Personally, I've had success removing both ingrained tobacco smoke and severe mouldiness through straightforward airing in warm dry conditions. It does take time, though!

As far as an odour absorbing agent goes, plain baking soda is hard to beat.
You would not credit the miracle of odour removal it wrought in our refrigerator which had been turned off for two weeks during a 40+ degree heatwave!
Fresh as a daisy now!

We left some saucers of baking soda exposed in the freezer and food compartments: it only took a week or two to cure it's "halitosis ", though just how you could apply this to an accordion I can't imagine 

Possibly, you could enclose the accordion in a box, or plastic garbag, along with the baking soda in an open container: that could do it  :huh: