More Bass?

[james_from_stoke]

I have an Atlantic IVM De Luxe.
I love it dearly, and given the abuse its had from its former owner, it all works amazingly well - its very airtight.
However, the bass notes are weaker than what I would like for the kind of stuff Im playing (think Andy Cutting/Spiers and Boden/Didier Laloy, only with a little less skill). Diatonic boxes seem to have so much more oomph on the bass side than my huge Atlantic, which kind of seems a bit perverse really. Is there anything I could do to try and improve the power of the sound of the Bass notes? I play unaccompanied almost exclusively, and when Im playing for dancing the extra clout would come in handy.
Im not afraid of a bit of fettling, and dont plan to sell any time soon - I doubt I could, because the outside is really rather mangy.
Heres a clip to show what I mean. Have a listen to John Spiers about 3 minutes in.


Any ideas?
A lot of people seem to want to make their basses quieter, so I would assume there must be ways and means of doing the opposite?
Thanks!

 

[JerryPH]

Well, the easiest way that I can see right off the top is via volume/tone control from either internal or external microphones. If you have control over that, you have control over the volumes of each side (bass and treble), and then you can raise one side over the other to taste easily enough.

In terms of doing things acoustically (instead of electronically), it is often much easier to quiet or muffle sounds by blocking the air path that the sounds take from the inside of the accordion out, however, if it is already at it's maximum effectiveness, meaning that all the openings are free and unblocked, you cannot make the bass louder than they are of themselves already.

 

[debra]

I have an Atlantic IVM De Luxe.
I love it dearly, and given the abuse its had from its former owner, it all works amazingly well - its very airtight.
However, the bass notes are weaker than what I would like for the kind of stuff Im playing ...

I had an Atlantic IV N but also know people with an Atlantic IV M De Luxe. I agree with you the bass side is a bit weak. You can close the curtain the IV M has (and the IV N lacks) to reduce the volume of the keyboard side somewhat, thus changing the balance, but there isnt a whole lot you can do to get more volume from the bass side. The white plate with the (120) holes for the bass buttons could still be augmented with some decoratively looking holes at the
top and bottom (looking in playing orientation), but whether that helps a lot is doubtful. The Atlantic should also already have lots of holes at the top and bottom where your hand is (but fortunately not in the center as you would hurt yourself). There are not a lot of other places you could help the sound to come out. The problem is that the Atlantic reeds are not that powerful. The bass is not very deep (I prefer bass that goes down to E, which the Atlantic does not have) and you cannot replace the reeds by more powerful ones because these would be too large for the reed block...
The balance between left and right is an important decider when choosing an accordion and it is often overlooked until its too late (instrument already bought).

 

[james_from_stoke]

Thanks for the replies.
I've just realised that it's an IV DeLuxe, not an IV M deluxe. Don't know where I got the M from...
Sadly, amplification is not an option, but thanks for the suggestion.
I have removed some old velcro from the bass plate, and polished up the reed blocks and bellows gasket to see if that would make a difference. From playing just, it seems to have made a small difference.
I already play with the blind shut almost always - it makes a surprising difference to the sound, taking away some of the reediness and making it sound like a much newer drier tuned box.
The bass plate has only four holes - two above my hand, and two below. would more holes make a difference? I'm guessing for the kind of music this box was designed for, a light bass was desirable, so perhaps it was only lightly drilled to keep things quiet?

 

[JerryPH]

I'd have to say that any differences would be minor at best, unless it is 4 very small holes. You might want to see if you could increase the size of the current holes before drilling more holes, and see if that makes any differences, but as I said, I'd not expect too much.

 

[george garside]

I have an Atlantic IVM De Luxe.
). Diatonic boxes seem to have so much more oomph on the bass side than my huge Atlantic, which kind of seems a bit perverse really. Is there anything I could do to try and improve the power of the sound of the Bass notes? I play unaccompanied almost exclusively, and when I'm playing for dancing the extra clout would come in handy.
Any ideas?

quote

stradella bass and 'melodeon push/pull' bass work quite differently with a resulting different sound! Stradella bass noise has to find its way out past a complex 'bass engine'' and involves a lot of reed sharing. Melodeon bass uses absolutely minimal reed sharing in comparison and does not use a bass engine so the sound is totally unobstructed on its way out so to speak.

Also the response of melodeon bass is much easier to suddenly increase volume on a particular note as the tiny ( in comparison with atlantc) bellows can be given a quick shove on the push to instantly increase volume. Also because there re only 8 bass buttons it is easier to 'bounce' off the buttons than on a large stradella setup where muc h more moving around the bass buttons is involved.

So the simple answer is to get a diatonic! The economic 2 bass on a one row 4 stopper can produce a hell of a lot of bass 'thump' as a sort of , slightly, tuned percussion which is very good for dance music.

( I play and teach both piano box and melodeon and also play 37 button 3 row BCC#' diatonic ' with 96 stradella. My preference for ceilidh (as lead musician) is for a simple 2 row, 3 voice 8 bass DG box, light weight and able to provide all the bounce and lift that the dancers like.

george

 

[debra]

Id have to say that any differences would be minor at best, unless it is 4 very small holes. You might want to see if you could increase the size of the current holes before drilling more holes, and see if that makes any differences, but as I said, Id not expect too much.

Better yet, remove the bass plate completely and listen to the sound (while pulling only, as you would be hitting the bass mechanism with your hand while pushing). If the sound is better with the bass plate removed, you can take out the drill...
Here is a pic I found on-line that shows what is possible:
http://thumbs.picclick.com/00/s/MTY...ss-Hohner-Atlantic-IV-Deluxe-Accordion-_1.jpg>
(no idea how long that pic will remain on-line)

 

[james_from_stoke]

Thanks for all the replies.
Without the bass plate the sound is miserably weak, so I would assume that more holes won't help the situation.
I would try a diatonic, but for the odd occasion when I do play with others, I'd rather not have to carry three different boxes around to be in the right key. I suppose I could get a B/C/C# with melodeon bass, but they seem to be few and far between, and a little on the pricey side.
Looks like i'm flogging a dead horse, then. I shall have to start saving up for something with a bit more clout. {}
Thanks again
James

 

[george garside]

BCC# with 'melodeon' bass are pretty useless as far as the bass end is concerned. There are a few hohner trichords made that way an I have ome across one or two others. Having to play the treble end to get the bellwos moving in the right direction for a bass note defeats the obgect and the bass even then is very limited which is why most Irish semitone players don't bother with the bass!

Perhaps playing the atlantic keeping the bellows no more than about 9 inches open would allow more control particularly on the push and therefore enable particular bass notes to be highlighted . Also keeping the bass simple and rhythmic and keeping more or less to the 3 chord trick would also help as would using both chord and bass together on occasion. It is also vital for dance band playing to throw all the emphasis on the off beat i.e a short 'um' and a long 'pa'

george

 

[debra]

Thanks for all the replies.
Without the bass plate the sound is miserably weak, so I would assume that more holes wont help the situation...

In hindsight that makes sense: the area where the bass mechanism is acts as a resonance chamber (to some extent, as the mechanism is in the way) and removing the plate takes that away. So its a fine balance between how much of the plate to keep to act as resonance chamber and how much to open up to let the sound out.
The Atlantic has more of a metal construction compared to other accordions that have more of a wooden construction. That may be part of the reason why there is less bass resonance (and thus volume).
There are large differences in the balance of the treble versus bass side between accordions. So its important to try before you buy (or at least listen before you buy). What is best for you is a subjective choice only you can make.