Lucia IVP pallet leaks

[Mr Mark]

Good morning!

I have a metal bodied Hohner Lucia IVP with some leaking treble pallets, and am having a heck of a time to get them to seal. These pallet facings were replaced in recent memory so the problem isn't the faces themselves - more the alignment over the hole. These are the ones with the rubber grommet attachment to the lever, of which I am not a fan of because they seem to move around a good deal and I can never get a good seal.

Is there any tips or tricks to working with these? The levers themselves don't seem to be the bendable type...

 

[boxplayer4000]

Mr Mark,
The Atlantic/Lucia pallet levers are bendable, with the correct tools.
In theory not much bending should be required as the rubber key connectors (grommets) should be flexible/soft enough to accommodate misalignment and allow the pallet to sit flat and make a good air seal. With age the rubber connectors tend to harden, lose their flexibility and air-sealing qualities. The connectors can 'rotate' on the levers so the pallet can be aligned across its width but there may be leakage at the front or rear of the pallet which the connector cannot accommodate. My first recourse would be to try and bend the levers. This is a situation where I find a stethoscope very handy to detect air leakage. Spare rubber connectors are still available. CGM music stock them. Though CGM are in the UK/Scotland I don't think the fact that you're in Canada will stop them being delivered.

 

[Ventura]

before you started bending stuff (which can cause other problems).......

the vales leveled down just fine before they got new "pallet facings"
so
i would re-visit that repair job, period

are the new facings both the foam layer and the leather face ?
or was just the leather replaced ? where did they come from ?

there was a known issue regarding the foam layer, did the repair
clean off al the old foam and replace with an apropriate thickness
and softness of felt or did they just lose some of the thickness and
make it up with a thicker leather ?

if the entire pallet is as wobbly as you suggest, then you need
to re-mount them with new attachments..

once the valves are repaired back to an original level of tolerance
and fit, THEN you can see about fine alignment

Aluminum flat linkage is adjustable a bit side to side angle, but
linear bending could cause a tear to form in the arm.. so i would
investigate all other options first

a photograph or 3 would help

 

[Glug]

I've fixed leaks on a Lucia IV P, including refacing all the pallets

Air leaks ? (Lucia IV P)

Hi everybody, Im in the process of checking the mechanics of my new 1959 Hohner Lucia IV P, and Im currently checking it for external air leaks using methods from Accordion Revival and here. The problem Ive got is I dont have much idea of how air tight it should be. Im using the Accordion...

www.accordionists.info

The arms are definitely bendable, you need to use 2 tools so the bend only puts pressure on the arm itself.
I also levelled the keys by bending all the arms.
I made arm bending tools from two bits of 4mm thick iron bar - file a slot in one end that just fits the arm.

The main issues with pallet leaks were getting the facing to sit centrally over the hole and making sure it seated evenly all round.
I made a wooden pallet plug and sat that in each hole and drew round it with a felt tip, you then put the real arms back in and check the pallet facing is central in the mark. You can do a similar thing with a ruler if you're careful.

To check the facings seat evenly I pressed the key slowly and observed which corner raised first.

Possibly the most important thing to do is to measure how much air is leaking so you know if you're really making progress.
There's a "drop test" mentioned in the link above.

 

[Ventura]

good to know this aluminum guage is robust enough to take some bending..
i noticed an old lucia thread with pictures and noted there they are different than
other flattened aluminum linkage, they were not quite round as of old, yet thik

 

[Mr Mark]

Thanks for the replies friends;

The felts were replaced in 2017 by yours truly as seen in this thread (https://www.accordionists.info/threads/lucia-ivp-felt-problem.4527/)...somebody had replaced the originals but were upside down - thus I got a smoking deal on an accordion with relatively minor repairs that took about 6 months because of waiting for parts...its always a long story with these things hah.

So there is no way to know if these were sealing properly in the first place. However nothing seemed out of alignment and it played ok for me as a quasi beginner player. I haven't played it in a couple of years and in the process of trying to sell the instrument, one prospective buyer demonstrated the leaks when hard bellows pressure is applied. It definitely take s a lot of pressure to make that happen but my other accordions don't leak like that and I am less than satisfied selling as is.

As far as I can tell the main offender is one of those pallets that is connected to another pallet (I think there are only two like that in the entire treble section) - so fixing one problemifies another. I'm thinking this probably boils down to more patience mucking about until I get it right. The rubber grommets seem fine.

Good to know these levers are bendable, for sure the concern was bending them in lineal direction and resulting breakage/tearing - these are pretty solid that way.

 

[Ventura]

the two odd lifter pallets/notes are there so 2 of the "white" key notes/reeds
are actually located on the sharps and flats reedblock.. some accordions
are made like this so as to allow a more compact design

you are right, with the extra linkage, more chance for it to get out of alignment
so looking closely at these first is a good idea

but the pallets still should seat nicely since they have that bit of flex..
it is natural for the flat surfaces to "mate" under the spring pressure,
so checking the side to side positioning as Glug suggested is
a good idea (before you bend stuff)

btw, could the springs just be a little weak ? how do they "snap" for you ?

and the guy who abused your accordion with hard pressure maybe just was
fishing for a discount.. i might have hard pressured his face to stop the
air leak first since the Lucia doesn't leak under normal use

 

[Mr Mark]

So after much difficulty I have gotten most of these to seal, however; I have managed to also snap the high F key clean off. I have superglued it back together and it worked for about 5 minutes before it broke again. The glue has now misshapen things and pieces went flying. Sigh. Oops.

Not a fan of this system (rubber grommets). Give me wax please.

Anybody got a spare one of these lying around?

If I can't find one I'm going to seal up the hole and render the key solid in place and move on with my life

 

[Ikesaccordions]

The rubber grommets wear out, and no amount of adjusting can fix it. I don't think Hohner supplies them any more. I think they might have been known as "Wechselgummis". The broken plastic key might not be repairable. A similar Hohner accordion might have one on it for parts.
People have tried putting like shoe glue on the gummis but the glue soon wears down. There is a way to make them by casting "rubber". I've never tried that.

 

[Big Squeezy Accordions]

So after much difficulty I have gotten most of these to seal, however; I have managed to also snap the high F key clean off. I have superglued it back together and it worked for about 5 minutes before it broke again. The glue has now misshapen things and pieces went flying. Sigh. Oops.

Not a fan of this system (rubber grommets). Give me wax please.

Anybody got a spare one of these lying around?

If I can't find one I'm going to seal up the hole and render the key solid in place and move on with my life

I have Lucia parts. PM me.