Korg FISA SUPREMA

[skopaczewski]

I never asked Chevrolet EXACTLY how they stopped the valve springs from breaking on my Corvette, they just did it, the rest doesn't matter, unless the exact thing happens again, which it never has.

And I'm pretty sure they didn't say, "You're good to go. Just be sure to keep it under 60mph."
Like, "Don't pull too hard on the bellows or it might happen again."

Also remember, your warranty starts on the day that you get the NEW unit back... not the day you initially received your defective unit.

My unit might be getting repaired instead of replaced. I know a couple people, including Linda Herman, got completely new units.
I really don't care too much either way as long as it doesn't happen again.
However, one person alluded that there may have been additional upgrades on the replacement unit. New sounds? OS update? But maybe he just didn't pay attention to the first one. One thing for certain on his new unit was that the startup setting (sound) was different than the old unit's.

 

[John M]

. . . The difference is night and day. So much more expressive and it also sounds so much better with the external speakers. . .

Interesting -- did you also play the Evo with the external speakers for comparison with the Fisa?

I was at skopaczewski's for a "test drive' of his Fisa that broke a few hours after I left. I took my FR-8X and Bose L1Pro8 for a comparison. The Fisa sound with Stereo on the internal speakers was fantastic. However, when I tried to compare my 8X with the Fisa using the L/Mono Jack on the both the 8X & Fisa, I could not get anywhere near the volume output from the Fisa compared to my 8X. In series with the Fisa & my 8X was my Bose T4S mixer that has tons of Gain. I could increase the gain when using the Fisa and could get some volume out, but only with a lot of "hiss". The signal/noise ratio was not good. Maybe the Fisa output card was bad.

 

[breezybellows]

Interesting -- did you also play the Evo with the external speakers for comparison with the Fisa?

I was at skopaczewski's for a "test drive' of his Fisa that broke a few hours after I left. I took my FR-8X and Bose L1Pro8 for a comparison. The Fisa sound with Stereo on the internal speakers was fantastic. However, when I tried to compare my 8X with the Fisa using the L/Mono Jack on the both the 8X & Fisa, I could not get anywhere near the volume output from the Fisa compared to my 8X. In series with the Fisa & my 8X was my Bose T4S mixer that has tons of Gain. I could increase the gain when using the Fisa and could get some volume out, but only with a lot of "hiss". The signal/noise ratio was not good. Maybe the Fisa output card was bad.

I play both my Evo and FISA with bose S1 pro. I don't play super loud so I'm not sure what volume levels you're referring to. After switching back and forth twice, I really like how my Fisa sounds.

I use the mono jack as well. One problem I've noticed with both the Evo and the guys is that some orchestral bass and chords sounds get too loud when connected to the external speakers. I'll have to try the L/R balance knob all the way to the right. The accordion sounds funny have this problem though.

 

[breezybellows]

as for the people receiving replacement/repaired units..

only they can say if they will again from the first minute squeeze
with abandon, or if they will start out treating it with kid gloves
because they are still kind of gun shy after going through this once..

i mean Damn.. can you even fully imagine the feelings people had !

OMG did i kill it
it WHAT

That's an interesting take. I'd assume that they will go extra hard on it to make sure that everything is intact.

 

[breezybellows]

I see some overblown concerns that are based on assumption that don't add up.

Here's what we know.

1) The first batch of units delivered to several people that I know are are still intact. Korg has also confirmed this. Not a single failure has been reported.

2) Almost every single unit from the second batch has had the bellows separation problem.

3) They did send me and a few others brand new units instead of a rectified unit.

It is based on #3 that you suspect that that did not figure out a fix because it's a design flaw.

I don't think that's enough evidence for a design flaw. If it's a design flaw, how come all of the units from the first batch are still working good? These were delivered two to three months before the second batch.

The asks for "YouTube videos" and "transparency about how they fixed it" are all arbitrary asks. If the fixed/replaced units don't break, there's no reason to be paranoid about it. It is not an industry standard to offer life time free repairs. The Korg dealer extended the warranty for the replaced unit. Nobody does this. That's already a sign that they're standing behind the product.

Fwiw, the early Roland models had design flaws. The charger pin was made of very brittle metal. I broke mine and I took it to Kimric. He fixed it for me.

 

[skopaczewski]

3) They did send me and a few others brand new units instead of a rectified unit.

It is based on #3 that you suspect that that did not figure out a fix because it's a design flaw.

Are you suggesting that some were given new units because Korg had not determined a fix until now? And that is why other units are now being fixed instead of replaced? That would make sense.

 

[breezybellows]

Are you suggesting that some were given new units because Korg had not determined a fix until now? And that is why other units are now being fixed instead of replaced? That would make sense.

That could be a possibility. It maybe they had a different unit that was not affected by the problem that could be shipped out sooner. I'm not sure we'll know that for sure. What is more important is whether we have a unit that does not have the problem.

 

[JerryPH]

And I'm pretty sure they didn't say, "You're good to go. Just be sure to keep it under 60mph."
Like, "Don't pull too hard on the bellows or it might happen again."

Exactly, they expect everyone to pretty much do as they please... within the same limitations as any other digital accordion out there.

My unit might be getting repaired instead of replaced. I know a couple people, including Linda Herman, got completely new units.

If one unit was replaced with a new unit they all should be treated the same. Did you ask what would happen? If not, you may want to reference your serial number... if different, it was changed. Let us know.

I really don't care too much either way as long as it doesn't happen again.

I'm sure that this is what most people will think too.

However, one person alluded that there may have been additional upgrades on the replacement unit. New sounds? OS update?

I am willing to bet it was "user error". No OS updates were announced officially.

But maybe he just didn't pay attention to the first one.

My guess is that you are right.

One thing for certain on his new unit was that the startup setting (sound) was different than the old unit's.

There are several possibilities:
- he had programmed his unit to start on a different setting and forgot
- the new unit was placed through testing before being sent and was changed
- maybe neither and the user made a change that he was not aware of or forgot on his original Fisa.

Lots of possibilities.

 

[JerryPH]

Are you suggesting that some were given new units because Korg had not determined a fix until now? And that is why other units are now being fixed instead of replaced? That would make sense.

No,I think if one person was given a "new" unit, they were likely all given "new" units. Do as I suggest... check your serial number... surely you still have the original one?

 

[JerryPH]

Interesting -- did you also play the Evo with the external speakers for comparison with the Fisa?

I was at skopaczewski's for a "test drive' of his Fisa that broke a few hours after I left. I took my FR-8X and Bose L1Pro8 for a comparison. The Fisa sound with Stereo on the internal speakers was fantastic. However, when I tried to compare my 8X with the Fisa using the L/Mono Jack on the both the 8X & Fisa, I could not get anywhere near the volume output from the Fisa compared to my 8X. In series with the Fisa & my 8X was my Bose T4S mixer that has tons of Gain. I could increase the gain when using the Fisa and could get some volume out, but only with a lot of "hiss". The signal/noise ratio was not good. Maybe the Fisa output card was bad.

Super simple. Two possibilities:
Either you had the volume on the FISA very low or the FISA is setup to leave the control of the external jacks separately when plugged in to avoid possible distortion.

I would place that blame on the user side.

 

[KeysFla]

Korg will be releasing a new Firmware update soon. Some that received the new units may have the new firmware. Keep your eye on Korg site too. As they may be releasing new reed configurations which you can load on USB stick.

 

[skopaczewski]

Super simple. Two possibilities:
Either you had the volume on the FISA very low or the FISA is setup to leave the control of the external jacks separately when plugged in to avoid possible distortion.

I would place that blame on the user side.

I did turn the volume way down on the Fisa to try and not interfere with the sound from the external speakers.
I'm pretty sure there is a way to turn the Fisa's speakers off. I just didn't bother to look it up.
I have external speakers for my MODX8 I can test with once I get my 'new' unit.

 

[JerryPH]

Korg will be releasing a new Firmware update soon. Some that received the new units may have the new firmware. Keep your eye on Korg site too. As they may be releasing new reed configurations which you can load on USB stick.

If you have a FISA and are not signed up at the private FB group… you should be. This is one of the first places, besides the Korg website, that will clearly announce when an update has been released. Also there has been made a promise that for all updates, there will be a place where they can be downloaded, along with instructions and a clear explanation of what the update entails.

Since it was only 1 person and they themselves said that they were not sure, I still believe it was user error more than an “accidental” release of a coming update. BTW, Larry, updates from Korg and updates for the FISA are from completely different parts of Korg, one by Dexibel, arrangers, keyboards, etc… come from Korg Japan.

 

[JerryPH]

I did turn the volume way down on the Fisa to try and not interfere with the sound from the external speakers.
I'm pretty sure there is a way to turn the Fisa's speakers off. I just didn't bother to look it up.

I rest my case… lol
I am sure if you ask John, he will be able to help, he’s practically memorized the FISA manual.

 

[KeysFla]

T

If you have a FISA and are not signed up at the private FB group… you should be. This is one of the first places, besides the Korg website, that will clearly announce when an update has been released. Also there has been made a promise that for all updates, there will be a place where they can be downloaded, along with instructions and a clear explanation of what the update entails.

Since it was only 1 person and they themselves said that they were not sure, I still believe it was user error more than an “accidental” release of a coming update. BTW, Larry, updates from Korg and updates for the FISA are from completely different parts of Korg, one by Dexibel, arrangers, keyboards, etc… come from Korg Japan.

This came directly from KorgUS.com support. Dexibel mentioned to me about the updates and add-ons, “it’s up to Korg”…familiar how to find and download updates…registering most Korg products too will get you an extra year warranty. Korg support will always be my goto site…

 

[breezybellows]

I did turn the volume way down on the Fisa to try and not interfere with the sound from the external speakers.
I'm pretty sure there is a way to turn the Fisa's speakers off. I just didn't bother to look it up.
I have external speakers for my MODX8 I can test with once I get my 'new' unit.

You can turn the internal speakers off. IIRC it's under global settings.

 

[debra]

Knowing the exact process... completely unimportant, as long as it doesn't happen again, THAT is the only thing that matters.

I never asked Chevrolet EXACTLY how they stopped the valve springs from breaking on my Corvette, they just did it, the rest doesn't matter, unless the exact thing happens again, which it never has.
...

Right! When the springs under the keyboard or in the bass mechanism break on a Chinese-made Hohner people may not ask what the repairer does to fix the issue once and for all, as long as they get replaced and never break again. (But we know the solution is to replace the springs by German-made ones. There must be a reason why Hohner is still selling such springs through their spare-parts resellers. For less common springs repairers know how to make their own, but with the Hohners it's a so common problem Hohner sells ready-made springs.)

 

[John M]

I rest my case… lol
I am sure if you ask John, he will be able to help, he’s practically memorized the FISA manual.

I was only at Steve's for a few hours, so I didn't get a chance to mess with any settings on his Fisa. Besides, I wouldn't want to. With my luck, I would probably inadvertently save the settings to the Fisa memory and then Steve would be confused as to what was happening to his new Fisa.

 

[Ventura]

I was only at Steve's for a few hours, so I didn't get a chance to mess with any settings on his Fisa. Besides, I wouldn't want to. With my luck, I would probably inadvertently save the settings to the Fisa memory and then Steve would be confused as to what was happening to his new Fisa.

However, when I tried to compare my 8X with the Fisa using the L/Mono Jack on the both the 8X & Fisa, I could not get anywhere near the volume output from the Fisa compared to my 8X. In series with the Fisa & my 8X was my Bose T4S mixer that has tons of Gain. I could increase the gain when using the Fisa and could get some volume out, but only with a lot of "hiss". The signal/noise ratio was not good. Maybe the Fisa output card was bad.

your observations and conclusions are valid

for over half a century, line outputs have been pretty
much standardized across the board in the electronics
industry.. literally ALL musical instruments have the common
L/R/Mono-Stereo output scheme and all of them MUST be
within a whisker of each other in terms of output power

otherwise an entire industry of wireless audio gear or line
inputs on powered speakers or chromatic tuners or
recording devices and everything else would be made untenable

so you checking in an A/B test through a typical professionally used
PA system the Korg vs a similar Roland was a very legit test, and no
amount of excuses can explain your results away

something was definitely wrong

i hope you get a chance when your buddy gets it back to repeat
the A/B comparison, and i hope you can narrow it down.. it is
very ,much worth looking into.. Your experience as a gigging Pro
and the level of gear you are known to typically use makes you the
perfect person to make these kinds of comparisons, for real life usage,
and then to report and figure out what the problem is.. if it will be
something significant that a warning flag needs to go up, or if it
is just something odd, a one off problem, that this specific Fisa
suffers from and how to take care of getting it up to "normal" again

your observation doesn't need explained away.. it needs pursued
to a conclusion.. so thanks for noticing and hope you get a chance
to run it down sometime

 

[Ventura]

accordionists, for generations, have spent 50%
of their time trying to rip their accordions apart
(on the pull) then sqish them into submission
(on the push)

so we can say, without a doubt, an accordion has
the ability to resist being ripped apart
AS A CORE FUNCTION

when Hyundai first came onto the automotive market
in the USA, with their first product in the "car" category,
if their wheels had begun to fall off after a week or month
of being driven, that would be the equivalent to this Korg issue,
because ROLLING ON WHEELS is a core function of a car

we are not talking about lifters tapping annoyingly or
a poorly placed button on a cell phone that constantly
gets bumper when you are talking and mutes the call
or a Washing machine that gyrates annoyingly
(but still finishes washing the damn clothes) or thousands of
other normal growing pains problems many devices suffer through

having the ability to be SQUEEZED is a basic function of every
accordion, and breaking faith at that level requires more than
just someone's say-so that the boogey-man does not live
in the closet or hide under the bed anymore

obviously, the test of time will be the final judge.. but
does KORG really want to wait that long for the "Jury" to come back in
and the potential customers to feel fully confident again ?

so i still call upon KORG, do a full and complete reveal of the solution,
not just pat us on the head and give us an extra cookie before
tucking this in for the night