Hohner Atlantic IV Musette - which model to choose?

[Pinu]

thanks all for the clarifications on the T reeds.

If making a compatison, which are the characteristics of the A Mano vs Tipo A Mano vs Durall vs H vs T vs Artist (missing any other?)

 

[Pinu]

The grid type with black switches is the youngest that came before the Atlantic N series. The one with white Gola-type switches is the N. You may not like the N because its sound is too sharp. As far as I know all Atlantics are "Metalbau", not likely because it produces such a nice sound (it doesn't) but because molding a piece of aluminium is much cheaper than creating a wooden box. If you do want LMMM I would rather recommend a Verdi V, which has an all-wooden housing and it has good quality full length reed blocks. Sadly I don't believe the Verdi V ever came with a "de luxe" option to get Artiste reeds.

Thanks for the suggestion.
How is the Verdi V compared to Atlantic and/or Morino?
wooden box? type and quality of the reeds? power of the sound? pitch and musette tuning? Any one has tried it?

in the market I see so many Atlantic and Morino, yet so little Verdi? is there a reason?

 

[debra]

Thanks for the suggestion.
How is the Verdi V compared to Atlantic and/or Morino?
wooden box? type and quality of the reeds? power of the sound? pitch and musette tuning? Any one has tried it?

in the market I see so many Atlantic and Morino, yet so little Verdi? is there a reason?

The Verdi V (which my wife played for many years) compares well, quality wise, to the Atlantic. It has a completely wooden box. Reeds are machine reeds (H or T I don't remember), although I have seen the use of better reeds as well, and also a Winkelbaß for a deeper bass sound.
The Morino is yet another class higher.
I know that some people will consider the Atlantic a better accordion than the Verdi, but when I see what is inside I must differ in opinion. The Verdi has a better construction overall, and a nicer tone. (The sharp Atlantic tone is a consequence of the metal box, and the sordino that was added (and removed in the N series) was just a feeble attempt to reduce that excessive sharpness.)
I believe the main reason we see more Atlantics and Morinos is that they were more popular models. However, the Verdi II is quite popular, as it is a perfect stage workhorse, indestructible and very reliable.

 

[Pinu]

thanks for both feedback.
O see you made a ranking of the hohner accordions. can you resume it for me here?

I guess first is the gola...then?

 

[debra]

thanks for both feedback.
O see you made a ranking of the hohner accordions. can you resume it for me here?

I guess first is the gola...then?

1. Gola is first class. The principle there is that quality is the main concern, price isn't.
2. Goletta/Golina is second. It's like a Gola but with tipo a mano reeds instead of a mano.
3. Morino is third. It has no sordino, and tipo a mano reeds. (The older of the Morino M series had machine reeds on the bass side and artiste reeds on the treble side.)
4. Pacific is next: essentially a Morino without cassotto. (Note that the Morino Artiste IV and VI button accordions also have no cassotto.)
5. Verdi is very solid, but as far as I know only came in LMM and LMMM configurations (no piccolo). Wooden case, full length wooden reed blocks. Machine reeds (H or T).
6. Imperator has "metalbau" (creates sharp sound) and cassotto (mellows down the sound). Not popular. Came in different 4 or 5 voice configurations.
7. Atlantic has "metalbau", metal case and sharp sound. Half-size reed blocks (of cheaper wood). Original series came with a sordino. De-luxe model came with artiste reeds. Later Atlantic IV N lost the sordino. Atlantic comes standard with LMMH configuration but a musette version with LMMM also exists.
I don't know much about lower end models, Lucia, Student, etc.
All of these qualifications are from before the year 2000. For the past two decades or so new models were introduced (Genius, Mattie), manufacturing for the better accordions went to Pigini and other Italian companies and that of cheaper models was moved to China.

 

[Glug]

Lucia is metalbau but has full length reed blocks. Lucia IV P is 37/96 LMMH., weighs 8.41kg + straps.

 

[debra]

Lucia is metalbau but has full length reed blocks. Lucia IV P is 37/96 LMMH., weighs 8.41kg + straps.

Thanks. There are sooooo many different models. It's hard to know all of hem. (The list of Hohner models that is floating around has 8 pages in small font...)

 

[Juls108]

The triple musette feature is great for playing a huge variety of world music. Personally for orchestra/ band work, as well as for the versitility of both treble and bass registers, the older Hohner, timber-bodied LMMH is always near to hand.
The player - Slawomir Jankowiak on that well known performance channel, clearly has this instrument in top playing condition, which may be an inspiration to all aspiring accordionists, whether young or well-seasoned.

 

[Pinu]

1. Gola is first class. The principle there is that quality is the main concern, price isn't.
2. Goletta/Golina is second. It's like a Gola but with tipo a mano reeds instead of a mano.
3. Morino is third. It has no sordino, and tipo a mano reeds. (The older of the Morino M series had machine reeds on the bass side and artiste reeds on the treble side.)
4. Pacific is next: essentially a Morino without cassotto. (Note that the Morino Artiste IV and VI button accordions also have no cassotto.)
5. Verdi is very solid, but as far as I know only came in LMM and LMMM configurations (no piccolo). Wooden case, full length wooden reed blocks. Machine reeds (H or T).
6. Imperator has "metalbau" (creates sharp sound) and cassotto (mellows down the sound). Not popular. Came in different 4 or 5 voice configurations.
7. Atlantic has "metalbau", metal case and sharp sound. Half-size reed blocks (of cheaper wood). Original series came with a sordino. De-luxe model came with artiste reeds. Later Atlantic IV N lost the sordino. Atlantic comes standard with LMMH configuration but a musette version with LMMM also exists.
I don't know much about lower end models, Lucia, Student, etc.
All of these qualifications are from before the year 2000. For the past two decades or so new models were introduced (Genius, Mattie), manufacturing for the better accordions went to Pigini and other Italian companies and that of cheaper models was moved to China

The Verdi V (which my wife played for many years) compares well, quality wise, to the Atlantic. It has a completely wooden box. Reeds are machine reeds (H or T I don't remember), although I have seen the use of better reeds as well, and also a Winkelbaß for a deeper bass sound.
The Morino is yet another class higher.
I know that some people will consider the Atlantic a better accordion than the Verdi, but when I see what is inside I must differ in opinion. The Verdi has a better construction overall, and a nicer tone. (The sharp Atlantic tone is a consequence of the metal box, and the sordino that was added (and removed in the N series) was just a feeble attempt to reduce that excessive sharpness.)
I believe the main reason we see more Atlantics and Morinos is that they were more popular models. However, the Verdi II is quite popular, as it is a perfect stage workhorse, indestructible and very reliable.

I could find a Hohner Verdi V CB. for what I understand it is the cassotto version. is that correct? is it a 3+1 (only basson in cassetto) or 2+2 (16 and 8 in cassetto) type?
I read somewhere that it is not a true cassotto, but just one set of reeds is mounted in rotated position. is it correct? anyone having a picture on how it looks inside?

how does it sound compared to the "normal" one? has it machined or TAM or A Mano reeds?

How is the keyboard? reactive like the Italians or a hot slow?

Furthermore, in the same price range, I could find an Italian box from Castelfidardo 41/120 - 4/5 - LMMM with Italian tuning (around 18 cents) - TAM (tipo a mano) reeds - NO cassotto- built in the early 90s.
How do you see compared to the Hohner Verdi V CB?

many thanks

 

[debra]

I could find a Hohner Verdi V CB. for what I understand it is the cassotto version. is that correct? is it a 3+1 (only basson in cassetto) or 2+2 (16 and 8 in cassetto) type?
I read somewhere that it is not a true cassotto, but just one set of reeds is mounted in rotated position. is it correct? anyone having a picture on how it looks inside?

how does it sound compared to the "normal" one? has it machined or TAM or A Mano reeds?

How is the keyboard? reactive like the Italians or a hot slow?

Furthermore, in the same price range, I could find an Italian box from Castelfidardo 41/120 - 4/5 - LMMM with Italian tuning (around 18 cents) - TAM (tipo a mano) reeds - NO cassotto- built in the early 90s.
How do you see compared to the Hohner Verdi V CB?

many thanks

The CB stands for "cassotto bass". The Verdi has no cassotto on the treble side, but the CB indicates a "Winkelbaß" which emphasizes the sound of the lowest bass reeds by means of longer resonance chambers, placed at a 90 degree angle.
The treble side is the same as on the non-CB version and the reeds are also the same.
It's a nice accordion (I prefer its construction over that of the Atlantic series) but sadly no treble cassotto.

 

[Pinu]

The CB stands for "cassotto bass". The Verdi has no cassotto on the treble side, but the CB indicates a "Winkelbaß" which emphasizes the sound of the lowest bass reeds by means of longer resonance chambers, placed at a 90 degree angle.
The treble side is the same as on the non-CB version and the reeds are also the same.
It's a nice accordion (I prefer its construction over that of the Atlantic series) but sadly no treble cassotto.

Hello Debra,
then I'm pretty lost :-(

If I understand correctly what you are telling me, the CB is basically affecting the left side (bass) by rotating 90° the lowest octave, but not at all the right side (treble), in which you have LMMM normal (no cassotto). Is this correct?

How does this sound in reality? Is it kind of "helikon-style", in which the lowest sound is pretty accentuated? Or how?
Any video in youtube or something you have from your own collection?

Is this something common in Hohner accordions? Morino and Gola are having this too?
I always played on italian accordion in which, as of my knowledge, I never found something like this.

 

[Pinu]

The CB stands for "cassotto bass". The Verdi has no cassotto on the treble side, but the CB indicates a "Winkelbaß" which emphasizes the sound of the lowest bass reeds by means of longer resonance chambers, placed at a 90 degree angle.
The treble side is the same as on the non-CB version and the reeds are also the same.
It's a nice accordion (I prefer its construction over that of the Atlantic series) but sadly no treble cassotto.

Any feedback of the Verdi V CB (1987?!) vs Italian 41/120 4/5 LMMM (-+ 18cents) TAM early 90s?

 

[debra]

Hello Debra,
then I'm pretty lost :-(

If I understand correctly what you are telling me, the CB is basically affecting the left side (bass) by rotating 90° the lowest octave, but not at all the right side (treble), in which you have LMMM normal (no cassotto). Is this correct?

How does this sound in reality? Is it kind of "helikon-style", in which the lowest sound is pretty accentuated? Or how?
Any video in youtube or something you have from your own collection?

Is this something common in Hohner accordions? Morino and Gola are having this too?
I always played on italian accordion in which, as of my knowledge, I never found something like this.

The "Winkelbaß" is quite common in both Hohner and Italian accordions. Usually there is no model number or letter as an indication that there is a "Winkelbaß" or an "Umlenkstimmstock" (which is the same but with a 180 degree angle instead of 90. The Hohner Morino IV M for instance has a 4-voice bass with Umlenkstimmstock. Later (Italian-made) Morino models either had a Winkelbaß or a regular bass. I have worked on quite a few Italian accordions from several different makes and it's always a surprise to find out whether they have a Winkelbaß or not. This just shows that the effect of the Winkelbaß is subtle enough to not immediately notice until you hear two otherwise identical accordions side by side.
There are also accordions with melody bass that have a Winkelbaß for the lowest octave (of the L reeds). This is less common because you can hear a difference in sound when going just past the lowest octave.
You might think that the more expensive an accordion is the more likely it is to have a Winkelbaß, but for instance the Gola's I have worked on did not have it.
The effect of the Winkelbaß is not like a Helikon bass (which in fact requires the use of special reeds/reed-plates that have L and M reeds on the same reed plate so the M reed is a better aid for the L reed to start.
Note that bayans with their powerful (Russian) bass never have a Winkelbaß. (There wouldn't be enough room inside for it.) So this feature is not a must in order to get a powerful bass sound.
My wife played a Hohner Verdi V for years. It was a model with "CB" but we never found the bass lacking in power.

 

[debra]

Any feedback of the Verdi V CB (1987?!) vs Italian 41/120 4/5 LMMM (-+ 18cents) TAM early 90s?

There is a big difference between a Verdi V (CB or now) and most Italian LMMM accordions: In the Verdi V you have L, M, LM, MMM and LMMM registers but almost all italian LMMM accordions also let you select MM and LMM so you have a choice between two levels of tremolo. The restriction to not offer MM is quite common with Hohner. The Morino and Gola models with LMMMH also do not offer registers with just MM in them (like LMM, MM, MMH and LMMH) whereas Italian-branded accordions almost all offer these options, some even more (like options that have only the tremolo M's (M- and M+) for a very strong tremolo sound, sometimes called "musette vivace".
Note that a tuning of + and - 18 cents is quite extreme. A more "reasonable" LMMM accordion would have something like + and - 12 cents.

 

[godgi]

I have one in my attic . I doubt if musette- it might be. I will want to shift it at some stage. It would be a refurb item as I havent played it since circa 1986 when I changed to CBA.
Godgi

 

[Pinu]

There is a big difference between a Verdi V (CB or now) and most Italian LMMM accordions: In the Verdi V you have L, M, LM, MMM and LMMM registers but almost all italian LMMM accordions also let you select MM and LMM so you have a choice between two levels of tremolo. The restriction to not offer MM is quite common with Hohner. The Morino and Gola models with LMMMH also do not offer registers with just MM in them (like LMM, MM, MMH and LMMH) whereas Italian-branded accordions almost all offer these options, some even more (like options that have only the tremolo M's (M- and M+) for a very strong tremolo sound, sometimes called "musette vivace".
Note that a tuning of + and - 18 cents is quite extreme. A more "reasonable" LMMM accordion would have something like + and - 12 cents.

Definitely good point. On this italian accordions are definitely superior!

 

[Pinu]

hello guys. Just a small update, that i am pretty sure It Will generate a bit of discussion among the crowd.

I tried a Hohner Atlantik deluxe Musette (LMMM), a Hohner Morino IV Musette, a Hohner verdi V CB (Winkel bass), all in very good conditions (I checked inside too) . I Just found they were all crap. The sound is just no sense and not at all manageable. The reeds were not able to withstand pianissimo nor fortissimo. Just like a Chinese accordion or just slightly better.

In the same price range I tried 2 italiano boxes (an Excelsior from the 80s, a borsini from the early 90s), so with comparable ages respect to the various Hohner tested.
The level of the accordions is just another one, incomparable for my taste. Much better from both mechanical and sound point of view.

I finally ended in purchasing the borsini. Very happy with it. TAM reeds, LMMM with classic Italian tremolo, 11 registers with possibility of selecting various tremolo intensity, Winkel bass system ... and an amazing sound.

I never had German accordion before (I only had 4 Italian accordion) and i wanted to finally purchase one....but finally it was not possible....they are just so inferior respect to same price level Castelfidardo 's boxes.
How can people purchase such accordions?! I was deeply reflecting on it and I cannot give myself an answer...

Any comment ( also against my opinion) is definitely very welcome

 

[Dingo40]

Pinu,
You are right: this should put the bull in the china shop!
However, you have confirmed my (strictly amateur) opinion that, generally, regarding accordions, Italian is the way to go!

 

[Pinu]

Pinu,
You are right: this should put the bull in the china shop!
However, you have confirmed my (strictly amateur) opinion that, generally, regarding accordions, Italian is the way to go!

On the Chinese: I tried a startone....and please never again!

Agree on the Italian. I wanted to give this time a try to the Deutsche Qualität, but it seemed not be at the required level

 

[debra]

hello guys. Just a small update, that i am pretty sure It Will generate a bit of discussion among the crowd.

I tried a Hohner Atlantik deluxe Musette (LMMM), a Hohner Morino IV Musette, a Hohner verdi V CB (Winkel bass), all in very good conditions (I checked inside too) . I Just found they were all crap. The sound is just no sense and not at all manageable. The reeds were not able to withstand pianissimo nor fortissimo. Just like a Chinese accordion or just slightly better.

In the same price range I tried 2 italiano boxes (an Excelsior from the 80s, a borsini from the early 90s), so with comparable ages respect to the various Hohner tested.
The level of the accordions is just another one, incomparable for my taste. Much better from both mechanical and sound point of view.

...

You didn't say which Hohner Morino IV (Musette) you got. If it's an M then it's made by Hohner, if it's an N or S then it's an Italian box made by Excelsior. The Italians can make better or worse boxes depending on what is ordered. Hohner did keep a clear quality difference between the Morino and the Gola, so the Morino suffered. For some reason a Morino never has the large dynamic range (from pianissimo to fortissimo) and you hear it very well when you hear an ensemble of German Morino players...