FRX3b woes, or is it me?

[SergeRbt]

Hello again,
I really doubt that your accordion has a problem ;-)
Considering that most of the functions are Ok, I do not believe it ....
For me, the behavior you describe looks similar to my FR1x.
Remember that standard display is 3 digits, presenting selected "Bass Register / Chord-Free Bass Register / Treble Register" (see page 23: "How to read the display")
Page 25 "Using Sets" shows you how to change Set by pressing [SET] then 1 Treble Register [1] to [0].
Not clearly indicated, but for me, the display "11" or "12" is a temporary display. returning after a while to the standard 3 digits display.
Page 27 "Selecting and playing sounds" shows how to select a sound from the selected Set by pressing 1 Treble Register [1] to [0].
I advise you to try all these and compare the sounds you can get (and forget for a while the 3 poor digits display).
Please, tell about the result ...
Hoping you are happy !

 

[Pipemajor]

Hello,
It is a plaisure for me if I can help a forum member.
Nice to here that you could load a SET from Internet on your FR3x.
But my suggestion was first to check the sets used by your User Programs before you load any new set.
The risk is that you get unusable User programs (the refered set being replaced).
I send you by mp my email address. I will check and tell you the sets that your User programs are currently calling.

by the way, could you share the link to this Morino Musette sound ?

Concerning the Update process, I checked and saw that you would get a stable "Upd" display if "startup" or "update" files is not on the Key root with PROGRAM.bin and a.rom.
do you confirm that you have these 4 files on root level of your USB key ? (with added folder DATAROM)

Hi Serge. I've sent you a PM with the User Program sets.
The Morino V musette is on You Tube, called Roland FR3X programmed as a Morino V.
You need to read the comments where he describes which sounds he uses, which are Cajun -10, classic std and classic std for the 3 8ft reeds.
He also has a video comparing the Roland Morino sound with his Hohner Morino sound. I couldn't tell the difference.

I have now tried the update without the "startup" and "update" files and get the same result. The message reeds "UPD" and hangs. Luckily no change was made.

 

[SergeRbt]

Hello,
I did not receive yet your message.
Concerning the update, I think I was not clear : you need the 4 files at the root of your USB key:
- PROGRAM.BIN
- update
- startup
- a.rom
+ DATAROM (folder)
(take care of extensions, none for update and startup !)

I have now some doubts, What are your remaining problems ?
- one is not being able to update the SW (see above help proposal)
- do you still have problems to select a set and to activate a treble register ?

 

[Pipemajor]

Hi Serge, strange, I just checked and I sent the e-mail at 16.40 your time.
HOWEVER. I think we have had a Eureka moment!!
Acting on your advice, I carefully checked all the User Sets and noticed that there were minute changes to the sounds when changing from one set to another but also noticed that the reed configuration stayed the same.
After a lot of head scratching, I found that you have to first change to the accordion type you want, then press the User Key followed by the Factory set you want. In other words, say you want the Scottish Factory Setting (no. 92) you first press the no. 6 ( "SP Folk") switch twice to engage Musette tuning. Then press the User switch followed by the no. 9 (Ethnic") twice to get no. 92 Scottish!!!
I can't believe Roland could make thing so complicated just to change sets.
Unless there is a problem with my accordion it would seem that you need to know which reeds are used to get the correct set.
I mean, who knows what reed sets are used for 32 Ciao Roma, or 33 Ballroom?
I could hazard a guess at Ballroom but I wouldn't know Ciao Roma if it bit me on the backside.
The Richard Noel sets are looking more and more appealing
Anyway, it seams that my Factory Sets are indeed there, but well hidden and the manual doesn't properly tell you how to access them.
Without your help, Serge, I think I would have been searching for an authorised Roland Dealer to sort out my problems, so a great big thank you for taking the time to help sort it out

 

[Dingo40]

Pipemajor,
So pleased your issues have been resolved!??
However, personally, I'm not at all tempted to go digital!?

 

[Pipemajor]

Pipemajor,
So pleased your issues have been resolved!??
However, personally, I'm not at all tempted to go digital!?

Thanks Dingo. I think it was a case of "The grass is greener" and the fact that I could play/practice silently with headphones without disturbing my wife who has dementia, had a bearing on the purchase. From the time I found I thought I had a problem until now I was starting to regret the purchase, but now, tonight , for the first time, I could concentrate on playing and discovering all the features, I'm now a bit more enthusiastic.
Time will tell.

 

[Ventura]

Hello,
On FRx accordion family, factory sets are loaded in Flash ROM during SW Update sequence.
RAM are not persisted by any coin type battery, and are reloaded at each start-up.
Note : if present, this battery should be easily accessable to be replace

many synth/keyboard designs do move the permanent portions of
programs into a volatile memory location (sometimes at every boot-up)
because it is a faster type of memory and so the device will work better

the portions of the user sets and the user options cannot be written
to the ROM or flash rom, and so yes, must always be kept stored in
some type of RAM that is kept alive by some type of battery function
when the keyboard is turned off
(or it would not be there the next time you turn it on)

as far as the Factory Programs and Wavesets, we proved ages ago that
all wavesets and all programs were designed and finalized and burned into
a primary chipset that has been used in EVERY V-Accordion ever made

when you factory reset a device like this, you are repairing the original
"hooks" that access the specific information in the main chipset as well
as the hooks that control the physical interface

if a factory reset does not restore the original operation of the device,
either the primary chipset has been damaged or the circuit board it
resides on no longer has the pathways functioning
(often due to a voltage surge that fried something)
or the control side software circuitry has an electrical fault or
a physical issue forcing errors like a stuck switch or cable problem

i have no knowledge of any type of fast access memory that does not
require a residual current/voltage to keep it "awake"
(hence the commonly found coin battery)

some designs are so frugal with their power needs that a large
dedicated Capacitor can perform the battery function
and indeed when a large amount of residual energy is required,
a rechargeable and dedicated battery is the type used.
much of this depends on the expected life-span of the device,
as well as the expected usage

all these musical instruments are basically dedicated Computers with
a RISC (reduced instruction set) type of core that then has this specific
control programming which turns it into a unique device that takes
advantage of the associated hardware

if you send it to Roland for repair, they will go down a list of
cause and effect logic and replace the most likely circuitboard
and see if that works... if not replace the next board and try again...
it is nearly impossible to trace and replace component level items
on these types of assemblies because the time factor makes it
incredibly expensive AND specific knowledge and understanding
of these FR series circuitboards is limited to a handfull of people worldwide

 

[Dingo40]

Oh boy!?
And they say buying a used analogue accordion is risky!?

 

[SergeRbt]

Hello PipeMajor,
Good to hear that you are now able to use your accordion.
I should be able to recover the FR3x factory sets and share them (let me some time).

Concerning Acoustic Analog and Numerical accordions, I have both and must tell that even if I do not appreciate at all the ergonomy of the FR1x (similar to FR3x), I am really enthousiast on its possibilities and its sound quality (specially with headphones). This is now my main accordion and get lot of plaisure with it !
If one of you is willing to go to numerical accordions, I advise to consider the FR4x (and I hope new ones that should come very soon ...)

 

[dunlustin]

pmj
Remember that if Roland's set-up is seems clumsy, you can always save your choices in User slots giving one-touch selections.

 

[davidplaysaccordion]

I found a Richard Noel video on YouTube that show’s characters gong the sets exactly as you described in your first post. No mention of having to change the voices first. You might try contacting him to see if he has any thoughts on what might be going on as to me at least, what you are having to do does not seem right.

 

[Pipemajor]

I found a Richard Noel video on YouTube that show’s characters gong the sets exactly as you described in your first post. No mention of having to change the voices first. You might try contacting him to see if he has any thoughts on what might be going on as to me at least, what you are having to do does not seem right.

Thanks David. It seems crazy to me also. It's all trial and error at the moment, so I think I'll just poke around with it a bit longer to see if there is any other way. Having said that, the Factory Sets, once you get in to them, don't seem to be worth all the trouble ?

 

[jozz]

Having said that, the Factory Sets, once you get in to them, don't seem to be worth all the trouble ?

haha yeah, but good that it's fixed

so does this mean you should have read the manual first?

 

[Pipemajor]

I'm still not convinced it's fixed.
I read the manual so many times I nearly know it off by heart.
I've also watched every video I can find multiple times and they all just press the Set button along with a set register and get the sound linked to it.
On mine the sound depends on which "normal" register was pressed before pressing the Set button and set register.
For instance, if I press the" Master " switch in "normal", then press the Set button, along with, say, "Scottish" which is a strong musette, I still get the low reed sounding.
If I press" SP Folk ", which is the 3 middle reeds, then press the Set button followed by the Scottish, I don't get the low reed sounding.
I've done a factory reset a couple of times with no change and also tried the update twice, although it is on the latest version, but it hangs and doesn't complete, and I have to switch it off.
Luckily nothing gets changed as there are dire warnings about switching off mid update.

 

[SergeRbt]

Hello,
If I refer to my experience on the FR1x, I consider very difficult to understand the real behavior of the accordion by just reading the User Guide.
You have to manipulate a lot to understand what is really meant in the guide.

Concerning the strange behavior that you observe, I thing you mixe the Set selection (done by pressing [SET] and then some Treble Register [1] to [0] ) and the selection of the Treble sounds themselves (by pressing only the Treble Registers).
During normal, usage, you should only change the Treble sounds, not the set. (so, in 1 press)
Better, it is advised to record as kind of preset your prefered sounds from possibly different Sets in User Programs so that you can call them immediatly (this in User Program mode of course).

Concerning your remaining problem of Update, do you confirm that you have the 4 files at root of your USB key as I advised ?
- PROGRAM.BIN
- update
- startup
- a.rom
+ DATAROM (folder)
(take care of extensions, none for update and startup !)

 

[JerryPH]

Hello,
If I refer to my experience on the FR1x, I consider very difficult to understand the real behavior of the accordion by just reading the User Guide.
You have to manipulate a lot to understand what is really meant in the guide.

You should try looking at the 8X manual... its 3 times more of the most useless info ever. I don't know who wrote these manuals, but evidently it was someone that was CLUELESS as to what the accordions can do... or how to do it!

 

[Pipemajor]

Hello,
If I refer to my experience on the FR1x, I consider very difficult to understand the real behavior of the accordion by just reading the User Guide.
You have to manipulate a lot to understand what is really meant in the guide.

Concerning the strange behavior that you observe, I thing you mixe the Set selection (done by pressing [SET] and then some Treble Register [1] to [0] ) and the selection of the Treble sounds themselves (by pressing only the Treble Registers).
During normal, usage, you should only change the Treble sounds, not the set. (so, in 1 press)
Better, it is advised to record as kind of preset your prefered sounds from possibly different Sets in User Programs so that you can call them immediatly (this in User Program mode of course).

Concerning your remaining problem of Update, do you confirm that you have the 4 files at root of your USB key as I advised ?
- PROGRAM.BIN
- update
- startup
- a.rom
+ DATAROM (folder)
(take care of extensions, none for update and startup !)

Hi Serge, yes, when I attempted the update for the first time, I had all 5 items on the USB key. It hung up on "Upd" which I left for an hour before finally being forced to switch off.
The 2nd time I had mistaken your advice and didn't have the update or startup files. I got the same results as the first time.
With regard to the other problem, when I press the 10 treble registers, I get the correct sounds. It's when I try to access the Factory Sets, the problems as described previously occur.

 

[SergeRbt]

Hello,
Update problem:
Strange, looks as if "startup" or "update" files were not found.
Could you send me a snapshot of your USB key root ?
(by the way I did not receive yet your PM ... also strange)

Factory Sets:
Once you have selected a Factory Set (or a User Set) (by pressing [SET], then a Treble Register),
what sound do you get if you press one after each other the 10 different Treble Registers ?
You should get 10 new sounds for each new Set that you select. (meaning you have permanently 10 sounds directly accessable by 1 press, and 240 after 3 clicks)
(I just checked on my FR1x, the Treble Register (for you for instance "Master"), is kept when I change Set. I did not notice it before ... )

 

[SergeRbt]

Hello,
Appendix 19 page 69 indicates the number of all Sets (Factory and User).
This may help you to find the different Sets (Number not constant (from 1 to 6) per Treble Register)

 

[Pipemajor]

Hello,
Appendix 19 page 69 indicates the number of all Sets (Factory and User).
This may help you to find the different Sets (Number not constant (from 1 to 6) per Treble Register)

Hi Serge, I've re-sent the e-mail with my user sets.
Yes, Appendix 19 is what I was referring to when I was questioning the factory sets I had.
I've spent ages going through all the different and listening to the sounds.
It would appear that there are 14 accordion sounds, 21 Factory Sets on each of the 14 accordion sets, which makes a total of 308 sets plus the 4 User Sets. Then there are the 10 orchestral sounds and the 10 organ sounds and that's only for the right hand.I haven't really looked too closely at the left hand sounds yet.
I must say that most of the sets sound the same which had me originally convinced they weren't working.
The names given to the different sets have no bearing on the sound , which doesn't help.
I'm now coming to the conclusion that the Roland is working as intended, just that the manual is so obtuse.
This would explain why the Factory Reset made no difference and also, as it already has the latest software update, maybe that's why the update attempt to load it again failed.
I must say that there are some really nice sounds among them, especially through earphones, so I think I need to concentrate now on practicing and playing on it rather than getting stressed about whether it's operating correctly.
I do wish to thank all who have contributed , offered advice and suggestions.