Fr4x MIDI

[davidplaysaccordion]

I am trying to setup an pedal to send midi to my fr4x to switch voices although for testing I will be using an ipad app to send the midi.

I am trying (and failing) to understand this diagram in the 4x midi manual



Most of the rows seem to have the same msb and lsb (0,0) so how can the select different things?
I'm no dummy but none of this makes any sense.
Can you select individual voices via midi, eg an accordion and orchestra strings or do you have to setup the entire 'scene' in a upg and then select that.

 

[JerryPH]

I am far from an expert, but I do not think it is possible unless the pedall supports SYSEX commands. I could be wrong, but I do know that Larry here will know more than I do in this area.

 

[davidplaysaccordion]

I 'think' I have figured it out.


So even though the CC00 and CC32 values often look the same, the channel numbers define where they go to. I am using the default 4x channel settings other than the basic channel although this may change. My setup is 'complicated' and using CME WIDI devices with the bk7m as the central so everything will have to go from the foot pedal via the bk7m (so far) to the accordion. I am not sure how that is going to really work as I assume the bk7m is also listening on those instrument channels for midi (notes).

 

[Keymn]

See page 83 of the reference manual. I would recommend a widibud pro in the usb front port, Airturn bt500s-6 pedal and a WidiJack plugged into Bk7m. With Auto group learn feature of the widi system, you can connect these devices. This video shows how to control the bk7m…a second Airturn pedal can be setup to change sounds too on accordion. But to eliminate this second pedal, you can use SongbookPlus app on iPad, when you select a song, you can also select accordion register or bank…Jerry PH may help you more on this.

 

[Rami]

I 'think' I have figured it out.


So even though the CC00 and CC32 values often look the same, the channel numbers define where they go to. I am using the default 4x channel settings other than the basic channel although this may change. My setup is 'complicated' and using CME WIDI devices with the bk7m as the central so everything will have to go from the foot pedal via the bk7m (so far) to the accordion. I am not sure how that is going to really work as I assume the bk7m is also listening on those instrument channels for midi (notes).

Channel 13 works well when selecting set or bank.
The attempt to activate channel 4 for orchestra and then return to channel 1 accordion, does not work.
Where am I wrong? What to define? Maybe in the accordion itself?
Thanks

 

[Greg V-Accordion]

You are not doing anything wrong. You cannot activate the various sections based on midi channel (only change tones of the currently active section using the appropriate midi channel. Once a section is active you can send a program change to alter the sound. If you want to simulate different section selection such as Accordion, orchestral or both - you have two choices.
1/ create UPG's representative what sections you want active and then use the midi above to select this UPG's (Basic Channel + plus CC00 CC32) or
2/ you must send the sysex messages required to trigger what you have assigned to the foot switch in the foot switch menu of the 4x. You would assign the function of orchestra to one of the switch numbers and then send the sysex to select that function.

I would recommend doing it the first way to acclimate yourself to how it works - then you can move to the 2nd way if you run out of available UPG's. Whatever you are using ( app) on the iPad - it MUST be able to send system exclusive messages ( sysex) if you want to use option 2.

Option #2 is the most powerful as there are only 9 sysex messages you can send and each of these trigger the function you define in the foot pedal mean ( such as drum on/off, upg up, upg down, plus even info for the BK - such as which variation, start, stop etc. )

Greg V.

 

[Rami]

Thanks Greg v for your professional reply.
I will adopt option 1 which I have tried and it works.
Regarding option 2, is there a pedal that knows how to transmit SYSex directly to the accordion (besides FC-300)? Or alternatively an Android free application as an intermediary?

 

[Airy]

[…] Regarding option 2, is there a pedal that knows how to transmit SYSex directly to the accordion (besides FC-300)?

1) There is a hardware box from „MIDI Solutions“ (model „Event Processor (Plus)“) which claims to be able to send stored MIDI messages including Sysex through DIN 5-pin MIDI out. The „Plus“ version has more storage or more memory slots.

It has MIDI in to get triggered by any external MIDI switch or MIDI pedal. Or in case you don‘t need every note on your Roland accordion you may reserve some notes as „switches“.

And it is powered by MIDI in if the sending device does send enough voltage.

Costs around 150 €/$.
See the User Guide: https://www.midisolutions.com/EP_EPP_User_Guide.pdf

You would need someone with a FC-300 to analyse what messages are sent. Maybe it‘s already documented in this forum somewhere.

2) There are hackers out there who make modified firmware for the „Behringer FCB 1010“ MIDI foot controller. Maybe you‘ll find some programmer who has implemented Sysex. The device itself is very affordable and moreso if you get one second hand.

 

[davidplaysaccordion]

I am trying to need additional hardware/ software to a minimum. The less parts there are, the less to go wrong!
I can certainly hack hardware and software so that’s not a problem.
I found a fender Fr4x-7 foot switch that has 7 switches. It’s for one of their amps but I am thinking a could build my own guts for it to send the required sysex to the accordion directly.

I really need to setup some sort of test rig to send various midi commands and sysex commands to the accordion to see exactly how it all works though first.

Thanks for the input though

 

[Rami]

thanks

 

[Keymn]

If you have an iPad, widibud Pro, Airturn bt500s, standard expression pedal and the iPad App Midi designer pro.
I now created a program to send the 1-6 sysex messages for each of the Airturn button and you plug in expression pedal on port 1 of the Airturn.
I will soon publish a video on this…
Waiting for SongbookPlus for new upgrade as they have some midi features that I requested for our accordion connections. Here is a snap shot of the program on midi designer pro.

 

[Chris Laarman]

If you have an iPad, widibud Pro, Airturn bt500s, standard expression pedal and the iPad App Midi designer pro.
I now created a program to send the 1-6 sysex messages for each of the Airturn button and you plug in expression pedal on port 1 of the Airturn.
I will soon publish a video on this…
Waiting for SongbookPlus for new upgrade as they have some midi features that I requested for our accordion connections. Here is a snap shot of the program on midi designer pro.

You had me buy MIDI Designer Pro 2 and expansion pack.

I don't actually need it right now, but...