FR1 polyphony problems

[KillTheAlarm]

I'm having trouble with my FR1 (the older model) to my PC. I connect through a usb-to-midi cable, and it recognizes midi messages. The problem is, it doesn't send more than 1 note. In other words, it's impossible to play chords - when you try to press a 2nd note, the "note on" signal is never sent for that note.

Is that a limitation of FR1 or is my cable dodgy? (I tested it with a digital piano, and it worked fine)

I looked through the entire user's manual, to no avail.

Here is my Reddit post with more details, if needed.

My ultimate goal is to be able to play VST instruments live, and to use the accordion as a midi controller.

 

[Ventura]

you first need to narrow the problem down

is the problem the FR1
or
is the problem the USB to MIDI interface ?

the simplest test is to plug the MIDI port frm the FR1 directly into any
model any brand MIDI GM sound module

make sure the MIDI connector is set to OUT (adjustable via Function parameter)

if it triggers the sound module normally, the problem is your USB interface
or your computer settings

 

[dak]

This problem description is usually associated with USB/MIDI cables featuring a fantasy clef (halfway between treble and bass clef) on the case. Unfortunately, the rotten Chinese ASIC responsible for it has even made it into recent M-Audio adapters (older M-Audio ones are fine, so are adapters by Roland, Yamaha, and typical MIDI ports of sound cards).

The feature those adapters cannot deal with is called "Running Status Byte" which can reduce the load on multiple notes (which on a Roland are triggered simultaneously on chord buttons and thus in particular need of compression) from 3 bytes sent at a meagre 31250 bits per second to 2 bytes on the standard 5-pin DIN connector.

It depends on your digital piano whether it will use Running Status Bytes. When they have some way to autogenerate chords (like an accompaniment automaton or settings that send multiple notes per key press), this may be the case. Yamaha keyboards use it even for multiple sequential keypresses (when having less than about 5 seconds of pause between them), making those adapters look very bad.

 

[dak]

By the way: here is the optimal solution for an FR-1 (or other Roland boxes with a single DIN plug for both MIDI in and out): it's called Terrasoniq MIDI One and unfortunately has been discontinued. If you can get your hands on it, grab it.

This unassuming cord works for both input and output (it autodetects what is being used) and thus does not require you to plug around when switching the Roland between MIDI input and output.

The GM5 chip it uses is produced by Ploytec. At the pricing of the Ploytec chips, I have no idea why anybody would use the faulty Chinese ASICs and risk customer satisfaction, but there you are.

 

[KillTheAlarm]

Thank you dak! Potentially saves me from buying a sound interface. I wonder why this cable was discontinued if it's so great, what a shame.

 

[dak]

Thank you dak! Potentially saves me from buying a sound interface. I wonder why this cable was discontinued if it's so great, what a shame.

Well, who needs a bidirectional MIDI adapter with a single DIN plug, apart from a few Roland FR users? This was rather targeted as a quickfix cable in a quickfix price bracket (I think I paid €20 new). With a bulk price for the chip of €4 (it can do 4 MIDI ports rather than just one) and an end user sales price of €20 for the assembled cable with the chip and probably a small PCB molded into one end, there was not a lot of money in it.

Also I cannot imagine this including optocouplers, so the "I laugh at your ground loops" property of MIDI connections may not be fully there. But I've had no audio problems so far when connecting a Roland both through this MIDI interface and also analog soundcard while I did have such problems with an old "Swissonic" Thomann house brand USB/MIDI adapter apparently also packaging something akin to that infamous China garbage.

 

[Ventura]

when the Multimedia spec was still a part of Microsoft compliant
hardware and included the UART based MIDI ports as part of
the Soundcard interface or in stand alone MIDI Pci or ISA adapter cards
it was easy and deadly accurate connecting any MIDI keyboard to a PC

then the spec got watered down and USB to MIDI adapters became the
more commonly used connection, and of course the problems began

Current tech has the USB connection included on body and in the electronics
of most Keyboard and other MIDI platform devices, so the in-between USB to MIDI
device is on it's way to becoming a legacy item too

we managed to enjoy what, about 4 decades of uninterrupted compatability
between alll MIDI compliant devices ?

if it ain't broke, don't fix it

 

[Alan Sharkis]

you first need to narrow the problem down

is the problem the FR1
or
is the problem the USB to MIDI interface ?

the simplest test is to plug the MIDI port frm the FR1 directly into any
model any brand MIDI GM sound module

make sure the MIDI connector is set to OUT (adjustable via Function parameter)

if it triggers the sound module normally, the problem is your USB interface
or your computer settings

IIRC, the FR-1x has a single MIDI out physical port, so what are the chances that there’s a parameter to set MIDI-in or MIDI out from that one physical port?

OTOH, if there is such a parameter, it may be there to control the direction of the “computer” connection on the accordion, which is bidirectional on the FR-4x and FR-8x. Using that connector would require a usb cable with a B connector on one end and an A connector on the other, not the usb to MIDI converter.

 

[Ventura]

ok Alan, you made me do it

i downloaded the damn manual

FOR THE FR1, midi out (or) in parameter
page 26
default parameter is out through the single midi port on the accordion

then i downloaded the 1x manual for comparison

section 14 page 56

the single MIDI port on the 1x is out only
but
drum roll
You don't need the midi port
the fr1x apparently has usb port full midi capability (page 57)
who knew ?

the parameter setting is at the end of page 59
and is referred to as external sequence and it
allows either midi out through the USB or midi in
so it is NOT duplex.. one way only

the other midi parameters are also in these pages, channels
veocity belows density etc.

so you can just connect the USB on the bottom of the 1x to any usb port
on a computer (usb driver info page 63) and play the keyboard (midi channel 1)
and it should play whatever virtual instrument you have dialed up
and so on and so forth

so (one) answer for the OP is to trade in his fr1 for an fr1x
or
get a better MIDI interface for his computer

since MIDI synths did often have a "mono" mode back when,
i looked in both manuals for any setting that might emulate this
in case it was a setting accidentally causing the problem, but there
is nothing of the sort on either fr1 or fr1x

for the young, some synths only had 1 note polyphony,
like my first MOOG, keyboard was just a voltage divider
via criss crossed resistors between each key.. then we had
synths with polyphony, maybe 6 or 8 note, but if you set the
keyboard to "mono" all 8 oscillators would stack and make a hugely
FAT single note, so many synths had this type of setting option

 

[dak]

IIRC, the FR-1x has a single MIDI out physical port, so what are the chances that there’s a parameter to set MIDI-in or MIDI out from that one physical port?

OTOH, if there is such a parameter, it may be there to control the direction of the “computer” connection on the accordion, which is bidirectional on the FR-4x and FR-8x. Using that connector would require a usb cable with a B connector on one end and an A connector on the other, not the usb to MIDI converter.

The question was explicitly about FR-1, not FR-1x. The x series has USB Midi in addition to DIN MIDI and thus does not need the DIN port to be bidirectional. Or even need a MIDI/USB adapter for computer connectivity.