• If you haven't done so already, please add a location to your profile. This helps when people are trying to assist you, suggest resources, etc. Thanks
  • We're having a little contest, running until 15th May. Please feel free to enter - see the thread in the "I Did That" section of the forum. Don't be shy, have a go!

FR-8X PC Editor & My Documentation

John M

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
533
Reaction score
395
Location
Medina, Ohio - USA
I thought I would do a post on “Documentation”. For me, this is the biggest pain, but it is worth it “No Pain – No Gain”. The payoff is a few months later, when you ask yourself “what did I do here?”. I think this is really true with 8X documentation. Some of you may remember, I have the 8X Dallape. After a while, the communication between my 8X and the PC Editor failed. I had a lot of help, from the forum (Ventura & JerryPH) in troubleshooting, but to no avail. There is a hardware problem in my 8X Dallape. So, for a while, I used the screen editor on the Dallape. I had access to every programming detail of the 8X, but it was very difficult for me to keep track of all the details. My solution, to use the PC Editor, was to buy a used 8X in good condition, so I could use the PC Editor (with my 8X to view the settings) and then transfer the files (Export/Import) to my 8X Dallape. This is a big plus for me, since I love my Dallape 8X, I now have a spare 8X for parts. Parts that will probably not be available as time goes on – I want to keep my 8X going for my lifetime. I am 81. The two 8X’s should be sufficient.

The attached two files are spreadsheets I created to document the User program settings I have on my 8X. There are many ways one can document the sounds/tones of the 8X. I have attached two files as an example of how I “keep track” of my changes. I’m sure others do it differently.
I have not done anything with sets. I really wish I had started with sets because I think that is the “ground floor” of the 8X. When I got my 8X Dallape, I immediately bought Richard Noel’s UPG programs. I make small changes to his UPG programs. I work with a specific UPG from Richard Noel and make modifications that I like and then save the new UPG. This works great for me since when you save a UPG, every detail of the 8X tones/settings are saved.
I think I could do the same with sets, except there are different ways to save sets and I didn’t want to “dig” into that now. Richard Noel told me he created all of his user programs, starting with sets. The PC Editor was not available at that time. His UPG creations are amazing!

In my first attachment there is a summary of the allocation of the UPG memory banks that I have created on my 8X. In the second attachment I have the detail of my layout of the first 4 banks. For playing, this gives me enough selections. My most used banks are 1 & 2. When the 8X starts up, it always goes to UPG #1 when I select “User Program”. I use the first 4 banks both “Horizontally” and “Vertically”. Vertical, in a bank, is the standard use of the 14 register switches. I also like to use” Horizontal” to go across banks. This is very simple on the 8X with “2 selections”. If you are in bank 1 and want to go to the same register in bank two, you just select the lower right “Set” button. Then press the “Data/Enter” button and you are there. Basically “two presses” – “Right Set Button” and “Data/Enter” button. This will move you to the next bank and same register location. I use this in special songs where I do a lot of changes with tones that I don’t use frequently. For example, I use these selections when I play “Battle Hymn Of The Republic” where I play several choruses and build each time to a more louder/greater tone, i.e; 1-4 (Clarinet) ->2-4 (Trombone) -> 3-4 ([C]Trumpet1) -> 1-4 (Organ Pipe).
Note: Selection of the lower right “Set” button moves you over “one bank”. Once you are there, you can select any of the 14 registers within in that bank. This will take 3 button presses. This is why I like to select the tones horizontally across a bank and use the same register. This is the quickest way to get to a tone with a minimum of button presses.
Also, in the first attachment (in spreadsheet format), I have the Bank Register No. and UPG name.

In my second attachment I have all the detail that I use to document each UPG. Note that I do not document every single program detail that is available in the 8X. It would be nearly impossible, and If I did, it would be so extensive/long I probably wouldn’t use the documentation. What I did was document any changes from the original Richard Noel UPG’s along with any new changes I made. By only documenting the changes, a lot of extraneous documentation is eliminated.

Below are acronyms I use in my attachment 2 documentation (Bold Hi Lite):

For the Right Registers:
Accordion RH AC
Orchestra 1 RH OC1
Orchestra 2 RH OC2
Organ RH DB=XXXXXXXXX This is the setting of the 9 Hammond Drawbars (DB)

For The Left Hand Registers:
Bass & Chord LH B&C
Orchestral Bass OCB
Orchestral Chord OCC
Note: I have not included the choices “Free Bass” and “Orchestral Free Bass” because I don’t use those much now – maybe in the future.
 

Attachments

  • MySounds_13ToForum1.pdf
    440.7 KB · Views: 11
  • MySounds_13ToForum2.pdf
    463.4 KB · Views: 6
Any backup of data or info is better than none, but perhaps there is an easier way... and that is to use a screen capture app. I use Camtasia and not only can I see precisely what the settings are, I can pause the video on any given screen when re-creating the register if it needed to be done. One can also leave voice notes of things to watch for.
 
looks like you are approaching things in an orderly fashion

as far as working with "sets" as opposed to UPG's, think of it
this way.. a SET has 14 accordion shifts that you are likely to
fine-tune as a "Family" of sound, as if it were a Scandalli you
remember well or a Jazzy Excelsior

then you can also set/assign/save one orchestral sound under each of the
shifts.. but unlike in a UPG, you have to press the ORCH button to
use it when you are playing
(the UPG remembers what is active as well, by default)

so f'rinstance, i am making an Italian set right now, and have
selected Mandolin, Violin pluck, various other orch sounds that i think
will work well with the Italian songs i play.. so they are handy
but i do have to remember what i have available in that set..

but if i were doing a Gig and i wanted to have specific sound combinations
ready to use with 1 touch of a button, i would UPG them, then i wouldn't
have to remember as much in the moment

they almost do the same thing really
 
Thanks for your reply Ventura. This really helps me a lot in the "big picture", As I see it now Sets have all the "pieces parts" and the UPG's have the complete "big picture". I appreciate your reply, because I really like to get to the foundation/basics of any design. I definitely will start working with sets to try to understand the whole layout of my 8X. I am a 'newbie" and you are an "expert" with tons of long time experience. So grateful for folks like you on this forum.
 
Any backup of data or info is better than none, but perhaps there is an easier way... and that is to use a screen capture app. I use Camtasia and not only can I see precisely what the settings are, I can pause the video on any given screen when re-creating the register if it needed to be done. One can also leave voice notes of things to watch for.
Thanks Jerry -- I was not aware of that - it looks good and I am sure easier than what I am doing -- the detail, I do, takes me a lot of time. I do the basic screen capture that comes with windows ("Snip"). It certainly does not have the capability of Camtasia.
 
Thanks Jerry -- I was not aware of that - it looks good and I am sure easier than what I am doing -- the detail, I do, takes me a lot of time. I do the basic screen capture that comes with windows ("Snip"). It certainly does not have the capability of Camtasia.
Close enough, and better, I think, than trying to write it all down.
Well done!
 
...and you are an "expert" with tons of long time experience.

oh my

well you might want to re-consider, in that i am a Luddite in many ways..

i mean, i still to this day primarily use, in my Studio, a Windows for Workgroups
computer not connected (ever) to the Internet, dual monitors, just so that i could
continue to use Cakewalk Version 6, which i LOVE and which has a tool that is
critical for me but was removed in the next Version (8) and they never put it back..

and Band in a Box is also on it, upgraded as recently as it allowed on that platform
(i think i started with version 4)

and Word Perfect Office DOS Database with which i print out "Cheat Sheets" for strolling
on a Dot Matrix Okidata printer

the "Media" Card is just a simple UART (smart serial port) sending MIDI out
to a tethered KORG ix300, also an antique with a Floppy Drive

for many decades i continued to use Floppy Disks for Sets live on a variety
of i5m's and i40's that i wore out, finally upgrading to the Korg MP10, which
was the last of the Korg stand alone Media Player modules.. OK i did upgrade
it to an SSD and my entire catalog is on there, which does make life easier
so i do embrace some new tech..

but mostly i have bought and never implemented a raft of modern devices,
recording solutions, modern computers with pro Tools and such that i never
ever managed to learn how to use

until finally i have just bought a new i3 Korg, because it can convert my .mid files
directly into Audio .wav files, and it comes with a DAW and a Virtual M1 and other
software and i do have a new Windows 11 computer sitting here waiting to be set up
with it as a Workstation.. need to make things simpler for 1 hour Gigs so
am converting to .WAV and setting up more Battery Powered, lighter weight
solutions for Vocals and Audio Reinforcement too.

most all of you guys are way ahead of me with Apps and DAW's and Tablets
and Macbooks and Bluetooth

the only teeth of any color i have are in my head..
 
Ventura, I remember the entire Cakewalk series going on into Sonar, but I switched to Mac in 2017. Cakewalk was simple to use. I got into midi-karaoke somewhere in the late 1990’s and created and collected tons of .kar files. When I started playing accordion again, I gave the midi-karaoke up, but I still have those files. Playing .kar files on a Mac means using apps that can do a lot more than that, so it’s really a waste of disk space for the apps. My .kar files are on a NAS device.

My first attempt to use midi was on an Atari 8-bit system, probably about 1994. Talk about cumbersome, but it amazed a lot of people.
 
oh my

well you might want to re-consider, in that i am a Luddite in many ways..

i mean, i still to this day primarily use, in my Studio, a Windows for Workgroups
computer not connected (ever) to the Internet, dual monitors, just so that i could
continue to use Cakewalk Version 6, which i LOVE and which has a tool that is
critical for me but was removed in the next Version (8) and they never put it back..

and Band in a Box is also on it, upgraded as recently as it allowed on that platform
(i think i started with version 4)

and Word Perfect Office DOS Database with which i print out "Cheat Sheets" for strolling
on a Dot Matrix Okidata printer

the "Media" Card is just a simple UART (smart serial port) sending MIDI out
to a tethered KORG ix300, also an antique with a Floppy Drive

for many decades i continued to use Floppy Disks for Sets live on a variety
of i5m's and i40's that i wore out, finally upgrading to the Korg MP10, which
was the last of the Korg stand alone Media Player modules.. OK i did upgrade
it to an SSD and my entire catalog is on there, which does make life easier
so i do embrace some new tech..

but mostly i have bought and never implemented a raft of modern devices,
recording solutions, modern computers with pro Tools and such that i never
ever managed to learn how to use

until finally i have just bought a new i3 Korg, because it can convert my .mid files
directly into Audio .wav files, and it comes with a DAW and a Virtual M1 and other
software and i do have a new Windows 11 computer sitting here waiting to be set up
with it as a Workstation.. need to make things simpler for 1 hour Gigs so
am converting to .WAV and setting up more Battery Powered, lighter weight
solutions for Vocals and Audio Reinforcement too.

most all of you guys are way ahead of me with Apps and DAW's and Tablets
and Macbooks and Bluetooth

the only teeth of any color i have are in my head..
If I'm allowed to say one thing more exactly:

Making .WAV files (bitmap sound) from .MID files or other files containing MIDI messages (vector sound) is not so much "converting" as "exporting" or "printing". MIDI is about commands, like (for the sake of argument) ordering "one coffee", but the bitmap sound represents the "coffee" - it is likely to differ among places. Didn't we recently have the case of the two FR-8x accordions sounding different?
 
flavors is why i decided to go this route

my only current tool for rendering .Wav to .mid is a copy
of the old Virtual Sound Canvas running on a copy of Virtual XP
running on Windows 7 on my Office computer

it has been ok for spot songs for occasional use.. i did the 7x Demo
performances with short version MIDI's converted with the Virtual Canvas
then on the USB stick (Masquerade, Femmena, Take 5, Route 66, stuff like that)
to show the new capabilities of the 7x when it was first released

but the Roland GM soundset is not as good as what i have been spoiled on
with Korg through the years, or the older 8 Megabyte Ensonique GM wavetable
that came with many soundcards on older computers
(which i built many Midi Computers for friends in olden times)

i have been told a good DAW can render a MIDI file into audio, but then
i would have to make certain the GM wavetable it employs in the background
is up to snuff, and even if it were a good set of sounds, i am so familiar with the
tones of Korg from decades of use that the Korg "sound" gives me comfort

now of course i could just run the audio output of the MP10 midi player
into a recording device, but i feel messing with relative volume levels, the
chance of Line hum, the vagaries of wires etc. may introduce imperfections
in the final Audio files

the new Korg Workstations, all of them, can render directly from MIDI to .WAV internally,
and since i intend to convert my entire catalog at this point, it seems a time saving,
stress minimizing, cost effective solution that will be at hand until my time is up,
so i bought this new i3 to replace the old IX300 in my Studio..

i will have my Korg flavored brew,.. Cappuccino AND cookies too !
 
flavors is why i decided to go this route

my only current tool for rendering .Wav to .mid is a copy
of the old Virtual Sound Canvas running on a copy of Virtual XP
running on Windows 7 on my Office computer

it has been ok for spot songs for occasional use.. i did the 7x Demo
performances with short version MIDI's converted with the Virtual Canvas
then on the USB stick (Masquerade, Femmena, Take 5, Route 66, stuff like that)
to show the new capabilities of the 7x when it was first released

but the Roland GM soundset is not as good as what i have been spoiled on
with Korg through the years, or the older 8 Megabyte Ensonique GM wavetable
that came with many soundcards on older computers
(which i built many Midi Computers for friends in olden times)

i have been told a good DAW can render a MIDI file into audio, but then
i would have to make certain the GM wavetable it employs in the background
is up to snuff, and even if it were a good set of sounds, i am so familiar with the
tones of Korg from decades of use that the Korg "sound" gives me comfort

now of course i could just run the audio output of the MP10 midi player
into a recording device, but i feel messing with relative volume levels, the
chance of Line hum, the vagaries of wires etc. may introduce imperfections
in the final Audio files

the new Korg Workstations, all of them, can render directly from MIDI to .WAV internally,
and since i intend to convert my entire catalog at this point, it seems a time saving,
stress minimizing, cost effective solution that will be at hand until my time is up,
so i bought this new i3 to replace the old IX300 in my Studio..

i will have my Korg flavored brew,.. Cappuccino AND cookies too !
You're likely to be able to choose the sound font (.SF2 file) used by the DAW or Player. And else, there are Virtual Audio devices that can tap the sound on its way to the speakers. But yes, 8MB General MIDI may be a good trade-off. You (Ventura) may well know so. (Some 25 years ago, I would hoard sound fonts. free and paid.)
 
Back
Top