FR-8x most useful Free Bass table to use?

[Rodney]

Having explored and gained a basic understanding of stradella bass extensions and starting to get comfortable using some of them (thanks to Stradella Xtensions by Evan Perry-Giblin), I tried to do the same thing with free bass with the Northern Europe table because UK is NW Europe. I’ve managed to map a chromatic scale and a universal major scale, but the high note buttons are white while the majority are black and I don’t understand the difference. I’m not sure if I’m using the best table, whether geographical naming has any real meaning and how to change, should there be a better setup for free bass.

Thanks in advance for any help on this.

 

[breezybellows]

Having explored and gained a basic understanding of stradella bass extensions and starting to get comfortable using some of them (thanks to Stradella Xtensions by Evan Perry-Giblin), I tried to do the same thing with free bass with the Northern Europe table because UK is NW Europe. I’ve managed to map a chromatic scale and a universal major scale, but the high note buttons are white while the majority are black and I don’t understand the difference. I’m not sure if I’m using the best table, whether geographical naming has any real meaning and how to change, should there be a better setup for free bass.

Thanks in advance for any help on this.

Hello,
I didn't have a chart handy. But I made this video a while ago with a good view of my free bass side. I play ten practice drills starting off at slow tempo. Let me know if you find this useful.

 

[Rodney]

Hello,
I didn't have a chart handy. But I made this video a while ago with a good view of my free bass side. I play ten practice drills starting off at slow tempo. Let me know if you find this useful.

Thanks Breezy. It’s great that you start off slowly and it gives me a good practice pattern, but I still think it might be a bit of a challenge to map them to a graphic, i.e. I can see what your fingers are doing but atm haven’t a clue which buttons are being pressed!

Your first drill in the series looks the same as the drill I’ve mapped out (first attachment). I also attach my major scale (second attachment) and finally a major scale arpeggio. I’ve also added C Major, with fingerings no less! I’m interested to know if you think I’m on the right lines.

From the graphics you’ll be able to see the mainly black buttons and the different white buttons that I’m seeking to understand.

 

[dak]

i've taken a look at your "Free Bass Chromatic Scale Fingering", and you definitely have selected a button variant with "Northern European" that is rather unfortunate to use if you ever plan on getting an acoustic accordion. The FR-8x is a piano accordion. There are principally two variants of free bass that are associated with piano accordions. In the U.S., the Titano quint converter system has gained enough popularity that the used piano accordion market there has among the sparingly available converter instruments quite a few using that system (in Roland parlance, "Fifth" free bass mode).

It has been quite less popular in Europe where the predominant free bass system (for piano accordion) has shaken out to be "mirrored C system". It would appear that this is "Minor third" in Roland parlance. In contrast, "Northern Europe" is "mirrored B system" which only makes sense in connection with B system button accordions and is the alternative popular in Europe for B system, as opposed to "rotated B system" which is used in Russia and related states (Roland appears to call this "Bajan").

Fifth mode has the advantage that bass runs work out just as in Stradella mode. It has the disadvantage of embedding the octave break into the system (to switch octaves, you need to move 2 rows inward or outward) and thus requires you to keep track of absolute pitch and key, possibly less of an annoyance for piano accordion players than CBA players. It also constrains the available free bass notes to 36 on an accordion with 6 bass button rows (whether 72 bass, 96 bass, or 120 bass).

Minor third mode has the largest range and notes close in pitch are close in distance on the button board. Also this is predominantly what you can expect to buy in Europe.

 

[Rodney]

Thank you dak, that’s most interesting, however my initial question hasn’t yet been answered. I know that my fingerings are worked out on a Northern Europe format because it seemed the most appropriate geographically so that’s the one I chose, but, I’ve not yet discovered from the owner’s manual which is set up on my 8x and whether it needs changing or whether each free bass note needs tuning individually. The reason I’m pursuing an answer because, while my tuner confirms the tuning of all the bass notes in a stradella set, most of the higher range buttons in free bass mode are a semitone or so out of tune.

Hopefully this is clearer and understandable, I’m a newbie where free bass is concerned.

 

[dak]

Thank you dak, that’s most interesting, however my initial question hasn’t yet been answered. I know that my fingerings are worked out on a Northern Europe format because it seemed the most appropriate geographically so that’s the one I chose,

It totally isn't.

but, I’ve not yet discovered from the owner’s manual which is set up on my 8x and whether it needs changing or whether each free bass note needs tuning individually.

Of course not.

The reason I’m pursuing an answer because, while my tuner confirms the tuning of all the bass notes in a stradella set, most of the higher range buttons in free bass mode are a semitone or so out of tune.

Hopefully this is clearer and understandable, I’m a newbie where free bass is concerned.

You say you have chosen "Northern European" free bass mode because you consider it most appropriate. Have you told your choice to the accordion? You need to use the procedures described in the manual in order to fix the accordion to a particular free bass mode (since players don't change bass modes on a whim, this setting is stored permanently and will be persistent even when powering off the accordion).

If you find stuff somewhat mixed up, chances are that you have actually either set "Finnish" or "Minor third" mode.

 

[John M]

As Zak said, pick one of the 5 Free Bass modes available on the 8X (Minor 3rd, Bajan, Fifth, North Europe, Finnish). The default from the factory is Finnish. To change it, you need to go to Menu 14.2 (Layout). Select "FREE BS MODE" to choose which of the 5 modes you like. After that, Hold the "Write" button until you get the screen that comes up asking tor "TYPE". There are 3 selections System, Set, and User Program. Select System and press the "Write" button again. If you don't do this last step, your Free Bass selection will not be stored in the 8X memory.

 

[Rodney]

As Zak said, pick one of the 5 Free Bass modes available on the 8X (Minor 3rd, Bajan, Fifth, North Europe, Finnish). The default from the factory is Finnish. To change it, you need to go to Menu 14.2 (Layout). Select "FREE BS MODE" to choose which of the 5 modes you like. After that, Hold the "Write" button until you get the screen that comes up asking tor "TYPE". There are 3 selections System, Set, and User Program. Select System and press the "Write" button again. If you don't do this last step, your Free Bass selection will not be stored in the 8X memory.

Thanks John, that’s exactly the advice I was hoping to receive. I’ve also been unsuccessfully trying to find in the owner’s manual how to tune individual notes in the free bass as my tuner shows the highest notes about a semitone out of tune. They get less out of tune as I go lower and I’d love to be able to get them all in tune. It’d make my day if you could point me to where in the menu to look.

 

[John M]

Thanks John, that’s exactly the advice I was hoping to receive. I’ve also been unsuccessfully trying to find in the owner’s manual how to tune individual notes in the free bass as my tuner shows the highest notes about a semitone out of tune. They get less out of tune as I go lower and I’d love to be able to get them all in tune. It’d make my day if you could point me to where in the menu to look.

From what I can tell, the 8X doesn't have the capability to tune each Free Bass note individually. I'm surprised you find notes out of tune on the 8X, since it is a digital accordion and the frequencies stay locked "in tune".

First off, I want to point out you can get a full 4 octaves from the 8X Free Bass using a combination of the 16' and 8' tones. Each footage gives you 3 octaves, so between the two you can get 4 octaves.
Side Note: I use the "Fifth" Free Bass mode.

There are many reed settings with the 8X, so to compare apples to apples, I would set up the Free Bass and your Treble side to the exact same reed tones. There are 27 different reed tones (Studio, Tradition, Classic, Stierische, etc.)
I have my Free Bass reeds set to "Studio".
● For the Free Bass, only have the 8' Studio reed ON.
● On the Treble (right side) only have the 8' Studio reed ON and have the Octave set to -1.

- Now play FGAB starting with the lowest F on the keyboard
- Now play same FGAB pattern on the Free Bass side
- The tones should sound Exactly the same--they do on my 8X.
- Using your tuner check all 41 notes on the treble side against your tuner.
- If your higher notes are going a semitone out of tune there is a problem with your 8X (or maybe the tuner).

Good luck,
John

 

[Rodney]

As Zak said, pick one of the 5 Free Bass modes available on the 8X (Minor 3rd, Bajan, Fifth, North Europe, Finnish). The default from the factory is Finnish. To change it, you need to go to Menu 14.2 (Layout). Select "FREE BS MODE" to choose which of the 5 modes you like. After that, Hold the "Write" button until you get the screen that comes up asking tor "TYPE". There are 3 selections System, Set, and User Program. Select System and press the "Write" button again. If you don't do this last step, your Free Bass selection will not be stored in the 8X memory.

Reference to Menu 14.2 did the trick! The FB layout on my 8x is set for Minor 3rd and explains the anomolies with my tuner. Next step is to do another tuner check, but with the correct button chart for the way my 8x is setup. If all goes well, I’ll look at the placement of buttons on the charts: Minor 3rd vs Northern Europe vs Finnish to choose the best option for me and, who knows, maybe adjusting the tuning of individual notes won’t be necessary.

Thanks again John and Dak.