FR-8X--A Great Find—The Equalizer

[John M]

Some of you 8X owners may know about the Equalizer, but maybe not all of you. Before I begin, I want to say that I never would have found the Equalizer, if I did not have “Conversations” on this forum with Ventura. He doesn’t have an 8X, but has a large amount of knowledge on the development of the Roland Virtual accordion. With his background/knowledge, and my “poking around”, I found where to access the Equalizer.

I could not find any information in the 8X manual on the EQ, except on page 72 menu item 2.3. The Equalizer is MFX Type No. 2 (Stereo EQ). I describe the features below:

● The 8X has a 4 band Equalizer (Low, Mid 1, Mid 2, and High)
● Each band has:
∆ Adjustable Center Frequency
∆ Gain (+/- 15db) Adjust
∆ Q (0.5-8.0) Adjust on Mid 1 and Mid 2
∆ Level Adjust across all bands
● In the “Accordion” section, the EQ can be set to modify any of the 33 Reed types along with all of their different footages
● The Equalizer can also be used on any of the “Orchestra 1 and 2” sections
● The Equalizer can also be used on the Left Hand Orchestral Chord section

For me, learning about the Equalizer, has really opened up a new world of tones/sounds that can be created and the existing ones modified on the 8X.
I am going to have a lot of fun experimenting with the “tweaking” of different tones/sounds.

 

[JerryPH]

I was aware of the EQ. I don't play around with them much but a lot of the Richard Noel sets did tweak them, that's how I discovered them years ago.

Some info about EQing:
Center Frequency: Here you choose what frequency you specifically are working with.

Gain: The amount you wish to increase the chosen frequency by. Be super careful. Like any EQ process, less is more. If you add too much you can easily push the accordion to distort, and then you're there shaking your head wondering why it sounds like crap.

"Q": this is the setting that adjust the width of the curve that is chosen. A small number here selects a very small range of tones. This appears as a spike. A larger number grabs more range and smooths it out. This appears as a rounder smoother "bump" if you will.

Level adjust across the bands: This is a kind of "safety". If you are boosting frequencies too much and need to generally lower the entire section because of this, it is the tool you will use.

Some EQ wisdoms:
- LESS IS MORE. Don't make huge additions. Just because you can add 15db does not mean you should.
- REMOVE frequencies you don't need before boosting the ones that you want to emphasize
- On the V-accordion there is no need to boost anything under 300hz or over 9000hz, the internal speakers cannot reproduce above or below those frequencies very well.

 

[John M]

Thanks Jerry -- You are a great help. I am a novice at this and I am "soaking" up as much information as I can. This forum is great!

 

[Ventura]

practical uses

probably everyone who ever played a Roland V, the first time you
tried the any of the orchestral Bass sounds you probably near jumped
out of your skin for how the sound reacted to velocity so freakishly violent
in the tonal jump

with that EQ you can fix it.. mellow out the strike envelope frequencies
so the Bass will be supportive at all velocity levels rather than taking over
the sound mix

and that mariachi Trumpet.. it has a helluva tonality, but the built in warble
makes it useless for anything BUT Mariachi specific music

ok, EQ notch plus being able to change the decay in the sound edit section can
control that peak and it's timing too

then the reeds.. now you can really craft the perfect match to your
main accordion of memory

the high frequency EQ will be mostly of use to the people who
play through House PA systems.. take the main set you use
for concert level performance and the UPG's too and limit that high end
so that the sound coming out of the PA system MATCHES the sound
coming out of your your accordion speakers exactly.. no more suprises

this should have been available from the start like it is in most evvery high end
Roland keyboard

worth the time and effort.. you will end up with a sound all your own

ciao

 

[John M]

So much information to digest, but I will take my time, get through it all and work out the details to "customize" my accordion to the way I want it to sound. It will be FUN! Thanks fellas

 

[Chris Laarman]

So much information to digest, but I will take my time, get through it all and work out the details to "customize" my accordion to the way I want it to sound. It will be FUN! Thanks fellas

A word of caution on customizing, though: the more you come to depend on improvements, the more helpless you'll be without them. Like after a factory reset or when playing on a friend's instrument.

How I learned that lesson is in itself off-topic:

My first synthesizer was a Roland U-20, around December, 1989. I enjoyed my own organization of the sounds (the internal ones and those on the expansion cards I had bought). However, this synth suffered from the keybed used. I had to abandon the synth in January, 1991. The contact mats under the keys had started crumbling again, and a third replacement was due. Such replacement involved some de- and re-soldering that reset the instrument to its factory settings. (And it was a job that took five hours of the serviceman assigned by the dealer.) - The first time, I hadn't made a back-up of those settings...

 

[John M]

That is the fear I have.. I do full backups anytime I make changes to the 8X. I create folders with the date of the backup since Roland dates all their Exported files as 12/31/2012. My greatest fear is when there is a hardware problem and I won't be able to get parts for the 8X. Recently, I purchased a used 8X (in good condition) with the thought that I will have replacement parts when they will no longer be available from Roland.

 

[Ventura]

being diligent with saving changes and backing up the entire unit
is a key point. Because the Roland's do allow that easy Global save/share
i was able to travel without an FR7 and simply load "my" accordion
on whatever FR7 or 7x they handed me for a show

and i will give Korg props for being diligent throuout their entire
Synth history.. i did a ton of programming on their DW series
(their first modern Digital) and they kept the core waveforms
used on the DW and included them in literally every Synth since

so even without a global share between models, i was always
able to easily program "my" sounds again

and now that the fr4 ansd fr8 have changed the set architecture from early models,
there really is very little in the way of "default" sounds/locations anyone should
count on, as the orchestral sounds chosen are no longer an independant "set"
but are completely shift specific and tied to the reeds used for that same shift

that would only be annoying to someone used to the earlier system,
but does have it's limitations on long Gig's for professional use

now, the user program bank programming area is where to put
your Gig specific customizations

 

[JerryPH]

A word of caution on customizing, though: the more you come to depend on improvements, the more helpless you'll be without them. Like after a factory reset or when playing on a friend's instrument.

How I learned that lesson is in itself off-topic:

That is true... but that is also why we should be doing complete and regular backups!

 

[John M]

. . . the Roland's do allow that easy Global save/share i was able to travel without an FR7 and simply load "my" accordion on whatever FR7 or 7x they handed me for a show . . .

When I do an "Export" of files FR-8X_Set_ALL and UPG_ALL, on my 8X, is that the same as your "Global Save". Is every detail of the sounds that come out of the Roland the same, i.e; using "Export" or "Global Save"? I guess, I don't know about the "Global Save" selection on the 8X.

 

[JerryPH]

When I do an "Export" of files FR-8X_Set_ALL and UPG_ALL, on my 8X, is that the same as your "Global Save". Is every detail of the sounds that come out of the Roland the same, i.e; using "Export" or "Global Save"? I guess, I don't know about the "Global Save" selection on the 8X.

Yes technically it is the same. What a GLOBAL save does is save things like your new EQ settings, changes in the title...



... and other changes, like I have a few changes in the MIDI section to not send out volume info.

We always want to make sure we export "all" instead of some UPGs or SETs.

 

[John M]

Another point, as I start my new creation of tones with the 8X-4 band equalizer, is the importance of my System. I need to treat my whole setup as a System --The accordion with the orderly "setup" of all the parts.
For me that is the Bose T4S Mixer, MicoVent 122 (Leslie Sim.), and the Bose L1 Compact Speaker. This is my order of Setup:
- All the knobs (Vol. Reverb, Chorus, etc.) on the 8X to mid (neutral) position
- My choice of the Bose "zEQ" mixer settings on the Low, Mid, and High range
- Settings on the MicroVent 122
- Finally, settings on the the 4 band equalizer in the 8X

I do this, since all of the above affect the final sound that comes out of the Bose speaker. I never use the internal speakers of the 8X. The Bose L1 output is so much better. When I switch between the internal 8X speakers and the Bose L1, the sound/tone difference is like night and day.
A main reason I set up the T4S mixer first is, that I taylor the best sound I can get from the 8X to duplicate the Hammond B3 tonewheel Drawbar settings (I use this a lot, mainly in church). There is no equalizer in the 8X for the Tonewheel section--really it is not needed, since the Drawbars are your Frequency/Volume settings. After that, I use the 8X Equalizer for the Accordion and Orchestral sections final "tweaking".

So--the final sound that I will get out of my 8X will be the settings on the 4 band equalizer in the 8X. I will not make any changes that I will affect any other items of my System since that will affect the final output from the Bose L1.

 

[JerryPH]

The way that I like to work...
- I setup the FR-8X the way that I want it to sound by itself using the EQ in the accordion
- I setup the way that I want it to sound through the PA via the settings in the mixer (I use a QSC TouchMix 8 digital mixer). That way when alone it sounds good, when plugged in to the PA, it sounds good.

I dont't make changes at each level unless that top level cannot do something that I need 1 step sooner, in my case, the mixer can do all the sound adjustments I need and more. The K.I.S.S. method always works best for me.

 

[John M]

I understand your method.
I never use the 8X internal speakers. I always play the 8X using the Bose L1. When I play out, all of my equipment (Mixer, Microvent and power supply) pack neatly with the accordion in my hard case.

 

[Ventura]

both of you have refined your setups and likely they will
last you dependably for quite a long time

my approach to sound re-inforcment was based on a
different need.. i had to be able to scale from playing
a small room or an outdoor cafe to an ampitheater so my
"system" was always predicated on flat response no matter what
i took to a gig.. some setups were merely louder than others,
or able to disperse in a wider pattern.. and my equipment was
and still is overkill by a wide margin

at first i used the default amps and cabinets, and was happy
that Radio Shack kept decent 12" and 15" eminence or Pyle drivers
in stock.. then i got my hands on the Ampeg Olympian that
had twin Altec alinco magnet speakers in it

but my first serious expensive component purchase was just a speaker
in a cardboard Box.. a JBL E-145 low frequency driver.. i built
a folded reflex cabinet for it and have been using it now for
over 40 years.. that and the 10" cabinets i re-built with K-110's
and Selenium Horns became the core elements until i started
re-furbuishing old Radio and Hi-Fi cabinets as PA speakers

had several backline Altec Tube mixers and amps for outdoor venues,
and good solid Peavey mixer-amp heads for weddings and such

i always had a 12Volt amp capability too, so i could do Vineyard events
and other remote outdoor parties..

of course now we have tremendous amplification equipment available
to us and much of it is easily run from Batteries

and as long as it all gives me a flat response from 20-20,000 Hertz,
i am happy

so as i have mentioned before.. if your sound is good through Drive in Theater
speakers or a transistor radio, you sound good through anything

 

[Chris Laarman]

if your sound is good through Drive in Theater
speakers or a transistor radio, you sound good through anything

Off-topic on this:

I am beginning to see the light on "remastered" tracks on Spotify. In order to have some song sound good on a transistor radio (mono, limited frequency response), voices (in the technical sense) would be limited to not-interfering frequency ranges. Hearing these recordings in stereo through present-day systems has them feel "disintegrated". With maybe a bass dominating the song now that compensation for the frequency response is no longer needed. - If you want an example, have Spotify play an old album by the Effi Netzer Band. (Folk dances, so the rhythm should dominate, but not as much (in my opinion).) The matter of the frequency ranges came to me when listening to the old hits by Manfred Mann. While writing this, I remember being present at a rehearsal of a symphony orchestra, a few yards from the nearest players. The dimensions of left-right and front-rear had the music sound somewhat "disintegrated" to me, but I have always loved to be able to track individual voices in the whole. (You can infer my musical preferences...)

 

[JerryPH]

On top of everything else, there is the basic Spotify and then Spotify premium... both sound quite different on the same song. The premium has a lot more top end and sparkle, now if you compensate your setup based on the base Spotify, anyone listening on the premium hears an excess of treble and high end.