Finally embracing the counter-bass row!

[Rosie C]

Until today I didn't have any use for the counterbass button row on the Stradella, and being used to a 12-bass it just got in the way.

Today, a lightbulb came on! Our band has been booked for a Christmas show on 22nd December. I'll mostly be singing and playing 'guitar', I'll do a couple of numbers on accordion -probably the German carols - Silent Night, Tanenbaum and In Dulci Jubilo. I didn't think I could play this simple piano arrangement on accordion, but a few hours of the old subconscious brain working away, suddenly I remembered the counterbass row, and in fact this bass line is straightforward!

Hurrah!

 

[noelekal]

It would be nice to hear your rendition of that.

 

[Rosie C]

Give me a few days to get the hang of it, and I'll post a video

 

[JerryPH]

Rosie, if you play that bass line, it will likely be overpowering. That is piano music, and though you can 100% make it work, it is going to take some concerted effort on not letting the bass side overwhelm the piece. You may want to consider using sustained chords instead. Try both, use what puts a smile on your face!

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Hi, Jerry and Rosie.

Jerry’s advice is great, as usual, but I just thought of another approach for Rosie if her accordion’s bass has a soprano or alto register. If so, she can try those bass lines as written in these registers and go for a “soft sound in her treble. It just might work.

 

[Rosie C]

Rosie, if you play that bass line, it will likely be overpowering. That is piano music, and though you can 100% make it work, it is going to take some concerted effort on not letting the bass side overwhelm the piece. You may want to consider using sustained chords instead. Try both, use what puts a smile on your face!

Thanks for the suggestion! It seems that either way it is worth learning both just to improve my technique - I rarely play the fifth of the chord and I've never played the third. It would be good to get familiar with more of the stradella buttons.

We'll be using a PA, so I could place a mic by the treble grille and nothing by the bass - that's what I usually do anyway, and that should do a lot for the bass-treble balance.

I can try all these things, video them, and report back. Though I have an essay due in before I go on holiday next week, so it might have to wait until November. Meanwhile, I had a message last night that a friend might be joining us for the Christmas show. He plays tuba and bass trombone - whichever he brings, I wouldn't need to use the bass side of my accordion.

Hi, Jerry and Rosie.

Jerry’s advice is great, as usual, but I just thought of another approach for Rosie if her accordion’s bass has a soprano or alto register. If so, she can try those bass lines as written in these registers and go for a “soft sound in her treble. It just might work.

Thanks Alan. My accordion has no bass registers, and just 2 in the treble (of which I only ever use the violin/musette). It's a good idea though, and one of the dealers who I've been talking to about a microphone system for my accordion did offer me a larger instrument with a MusicTech system already installed - and that has a decent range of registers.

 

[JeffJetton]

Rosie, if you play that bass line, it will likely be overpowering. That is piano music, and though you can 100% make it work, it is going to take some concerted effort on not letting the bass side overwhelm the piece.

I was about to say the same thing. It's a great exercise to play that particular pattern, so well worth learning. And it might work, sort of. But I think it's also going to be a good exercise in adapting an arrangement from one instrument to another.

Those lovely left hand arpeggios in that arrangement work great on piano because A) piano is not a sustaining instrument--you hit the note and it fades away like a plucked guitar string or a rung bell, B) it's all in the octave-and-a-half just below middle C, so not too "muddy", and C) you have a choice of octaves for each note, so you are able always play that arpeggio in "bottom up" order--the notes will always sound like they are ascending.

These don't necessarily apply on an accordion, although it can depend on your bass register switch settings (if available) and how your reeds are arranged, etc.

Anyway, my first thought would be to just play a waltz bass pattern here, with very light, staccato fingering to let the melody take the spotlight. The same pattern you learned right at the beginning of Palmer-Hughes Book 1: Bass, Chord, Chord. (Although they'd be eighth notes instead of quarter notes since the arrangement is in 6/8). Regular ol' G major chords can, of course, be substituted for the G7 chords.

 

[Rosie C]

Thanks everyone for so many helpful replies. I will practice the tune all ways, and take it as a learning opportunity! So that gives:
* arpeggios as written
* sustained chords, as Jerry suggests
* bass-chord-chord waltz, as Jeff suggests

@JeffJetton oh yes, G chord for now! I've got as far as playing an occasional Em or Bm, but rest of the minor row, the 7 and the dim rows are definitely for another day.

Here is as good a place as any to say how much I'm enjoying learning the accordion. It's hard to believe it's less than 8 weeks since I started!

 

[Tom]

Thanks everyone for so many helpful replies. I will practice the tune all ways, and take it as a learning opportunity! So that gives:
* arpeggios as written
* sustained chords, as Jerry suggests
* bass-chord-chord waltz, as Jeff suggests

@JeffJetton oh yes, G chord for now! I've got as far as playing an occasional Em or Bm, but rest of the minor row, the 7 and the dim rows are definitely for another day.

Here is as good a place as any to say how much I'm enjoying learning the accordion. It's hard to believe it's less than 8 weeks since I started!

Good going!!!! And as far as counter bass goes, don’t forget that you can spice up Jeff’s suggestion by doing some combination of bass, chord, chord; counter bass, chord, chord; fifth (D in key of G), chord, chord. Using the third and fifth where it best suits the melody. Good luck!!!!

 

[Walker]

The Counter row and it's "twin" the Fundamental row - both in identical formation (think circle of fifths) but "staggered" a major third apart...

They call this the "Stradella" bass layout, which is, of course, the town where Mariano Dallape started building accordions in 1876, and is often credited with the development of this bass (and chord) formation. Good old Mariano!

Stradella - a most universal of systems (I'm a big fan of it) with it's Counter & Fundamental bass combinations... I liked it so much, I invested a considerable sum of money recently in my second accordion with Quint free bass (system of 5ths) on the left hand. Scandalli BJP 442 V (V being the Roman numeral for ). So, erm, I have no choice but to embrace the Counter bass... my accordion has 3 counter bass rows and 3 fundamental bass rows (low, middle and high octaves)! It's the "Stradella" layout unfurled three times over.

In case I haven't mentioned it (LOL) - I have been working quite intensively on a contemporary composition course at Cardiff University (online) recently ... and I have realised what an amazing layout it really is! I have learned a lot of the secrets of the interaction between the fundamental and counter rows. I have regularly, with minimal hand movement (it's greatest strength), implemented all manner of lovely note combinations in my weird & wonderful (my tutor might not agree with the second part ) creations... Major & minor scale sequences, the Church modes, whole-tone scales, arpeggios galore, pentatonic patterns, double octave (and more) jumps and chromatic (half tone) sequences etc. - they are all there, and with multiple ways of achieving them in practical applications.

Good luck with the Counter bass row @Rosie C. High 5!​

 

[JKJ]

I have realised what an amazing layout it really is! I have learned a lot of the secrets of the interaction between the fundamental and counter rows. I have regularly, with minimal hand movement (it's greatest strength), implemented all manner of lovely note combinations in my weird & wonderful (my tutor might not agree with the second part ) creations... Major & minor scale sequences, the Church modes, whole-tone scales, arpeggios galore, pentatonic patterns, double octave (and more) jumps and chromatic (half tone) sequences etc.

Can you recommended resources such as books and videos for learning such wonders? I’m new at the accordion (come from piano and other instruments) and am working first on the hard part, the left hand, std 41/120 stradella. I’m starting to get comfortable with playing (major) scales with bass/counterbass and experimenting with adding counterbase to transitions and chords. I’d love to find additional resources. I‘m working through exercises in The Mighty Accordion book.

When improvising I have a rough time finding the button I want. For now I find the easiest thing for improvising is to sit on the piano bench with the left hand at the accordion and right hand playing the (real) piano keyboard. That way I can easily stop find the exact note I her my head then locate it on the accordion bass/counterbass. I’ve been working through some of my favorite hymns that way. (slowly)

JKJ

 

[Rosie C]

I do like the stradella layout. I play double bass too, and although it's in fourths, there's still the same circle of fifths thing going on. I played in a country band for a while and that was mostly root-5 with a few runs thrown in.

 

[JerryPH]

I just noticed that Rosie has slipped over to the dark side with the HOHNER logo… lol

 

[Rosie C]

I just noticed that Rosie has slipped over to the dark side with the HOHNER logo… lol

Well, there is a story there - I've spent the last few weeks deliberating over how to amplify my accordion - both for the Morris dances, and a Christmas show I have coming up. I've been in discussions about buying another Hohner - a Concerto IIIN, which I think is more or less the same as my IIS, just with an extra treble and bass voice, and this particular example already has Musictech internal mics installed. So with the possibility of a pair of matching Hohners in my future, I think my colours are more or less nailed to the mast! (it does depend on selling another instrument first though)

 

[JerryPH]

Nothing wrong with the older Hohners, 4 out of my collection are Hohners, I am completely happy with them.

 

[Rosie C]

Nothing wrong with the older Hohners, 4 out of my collection are Hohners, I am completely happy with them.

I drive a Volkswagen and I speak German, so I suppose it was always going to be Hohner.

 

[donn]

Morris!? Weirdly, that's where I got on - was playing tuba for a side, when the accordion player ran away. In Seattle, where I was at the time, the scene was mostly Cotswold and Border, and diatonic squeezeboxes plus the occasional concertina, but our side was Northwest and felt less constrained to that particular instrumentation. And the initial accordion player felt (I think wrongly) that his accordion was the more audible voice than his other free reed option.

I ended up with a French style chromatic button accordion - with 2 counterbass rows. One for the major 3rd, one for minor 3rd (though with a layout that's symmetrical to the other bass rows, so the 3rd row is some kind of 6th to the primary in its own column - it's a minor 3rd from the major 3rd - but the next column subtracts a 5th and there you go, and more handy than the same column at that distance along the diagonal.) For all that, I don't do much melodically with bass, it's more about variations on the bass line - the kind of thing I think most bass players do naturally, leading into a chord and so forth.

 

[Rosie C]

Diatonic squeezebox is definitely what some of the members would have preferred me to take up. But I play other folk music and wanted the whole range of keys and notes. Our band is only mandolin, piano accordion and drum. The mandolin player does a fine job of the melody so lately I've been focussing on the bass line - especially as I'm also a double bass player. I'd like to move on from oompah to have a few runs and leading notes - but not so easy on a Stradella. However, if things work out, I have my eye on a new LMM accordion, so I'm hoping that the "Bassoon" register in the treble side will open up more bass possibilities.

I do like the sound of a second counterbass row. I'm a retired software engineer, bass machines fascinate me!

 

[Walker]

Can you recommended resources such as books and videos for learning such wonders?

Many books and online resources are excellent for categorising and describing certain technical or theoretical building blocks of music. I guess it's stuff that can enhance our technique or make us understand how music works. Particularly useful when applied to self-directed learning.

However, at this point I'm not certain that "wonders" are to be discovered in theory or technical/scale books. Indeed, great architecture is rarely seen by examining rows of bricks in the builders merchants. I hear people (not you) forever talk about things like scales in pure isolation, rather than in the context of a musical work. I understand it, but it doesn't "sit" naturally with me... You know, like when people say: "I want to play X accordion because I can play Y arpeggio really easily/well with it". It makes me think,.. "fair play.... now beam me up Scotty"!

A great musician on this forum once said to me that he doesn't bother with scales as he would rather play Etudes instead and thus get some music out of the experience! I think there is a lot to be said for that approach.

So, today I was discovering left hand sequences (bass notes) that could be described as: "major third dyads in descending chromatic sequences". Such a concept is actually super-dull! Yet, somehow it becomes wonderful when applied to a piece of music in a particular phrase! All of a sudden, we begin to discover colour and vibrancy in music. I played the said progression on my Quint free bass (systems of 5ths) accordion easily (though I never learned the technique from any accordion book). Indeed, I also played it on a Chromatic free bass accordion easily (system of minor thirds). There were different hand shapes and movements - but I liked the hand movement created on both accordion's (contrasting) bass sides. What interested me more though was the sound and texture it added to the music.

JKJ, keep discovering and exploring at a pace that your technique can handle and in a musical context that inspires you. You will grow more and more over time. There will doubtless be many technical and theoretical books on the accordion to discover by recommendation or by chance. However, don't be restricted to accordion books. Use your keyboard/piano knowledge or interest in sacred music and learn how to mould certain things to your accordion music. Many non-accordion resources can lead to wonderful moments in music.

I really like this:
​

When improvising I have a rough time finding the button I want. For now I find the easiest thing for improvising is to sit on the piano bench with the left hand at the accordion and right hand playing the (real) piano keyboard. That way I can easily stop find the exact note I her my head then locate it on the accordion bass/counterbass. I’ve been working through some of my favorite hymns that way. (slowly)​

When people use words like "improvise" "arrange", "compose", "interpret" I hear the word creativity! Maybe, (or maybe not) in time, you may discover that you need more than a single octave of bass notes to really explore music on the accordion... Either way, keep thinking outside of the box!

​

 

[JeffJetton]

I played in a country band for a while and that was mostly root-5 with a few runs thrown in.

Reminds me of the joke, "how many country bass players does it take to screw in a lightbulb?"

Answer: 1... 5... 1... 5...