External midi expander to internal conversion?

[NewtoReeds]

Good evening, friends!

I have a theoretical question about the SEM/ Ciao MIDI accordions. They (as well as basically every MIDI accordion outside of the Roland V's and Bugari EVO) have external midi expanders and power supplies and require an amplifier to make sound.

I was wondering if it was conceivably possible to take the guts of the expander/power supply, fit them inside the case/bellows, adapt it to use battery power, and install compact speakers under the grille.

I ask because while listing steps makes it sound very easily done, practical constraints become an issue, such as fitting the output jacks, or shielding the boards from the speaker magnets, or even just finding room for it all. Weight wouldn't be a huge concern for me.

 

[Ventura]

miniaturization has made a lot of things (more) possible,
and the new Power Amp circuits that eliminate the copper
power supply transformer are a huge help for a project like this

what you cannot change, however, are the physics of the
speakers. a good baffle is absolutely necessary as is the
speaker chamber behind the cone, which must be as voluminous
as possible and which also must be well protected by the baffle

the second thing that is somewhat problematic is that MIDI for
accordions shifted to the back burner to a certain extent with the rise
of the digital accordion. in other words, do you have a source
for some kind of Bellows sensor and do you have MIDI circuitry that
can read and interpret that ? Do you have a source for MIDI circuitry
that is small enough to use inside an accordion that can use some type
of dual keyswitch setup and do you have the equipment and skills
to adjust the delta to perfection ?

beyond that, the sound engine is simple, there are several
small, GM and specialty sound bank devices that could easily
be battery powered, but unfortunately most of these rely
upon MIDI to control their settings so you cannot incorporate them
and hope to use their "front panel" controls, since they really don't
have anything useful there from an accordion performance perspective,
so THAT functionality must also be part of your accordion programming
and interface design.

the first Synth i took apart and tried to stuff inside an accordion was
the Roland Alpha Juno 1 (unsuccessful) but it wasn't the last (lol)

 

[NewtoReeds]

I had thought of reusing as much of the existing hardware that is already in it to begin with, such as the Ciao control panel and their Soundbank because while some samples leave things to be desired-others I really like, and whatever means they had cooked up for bellows driven dynamics is good enough for me, so why change it. I haven't dug around inside of it much, aside from taking the grille off to see if speakers would even fit. I imagine with time and careful rearranging of components a 3 or 4 inch compact speaker could be made to fit, but I'm no electronics wiz, just a man with an idea that seemed cool.

 

[JerryPH]

I was wondering if it was conceivably possible to take the guts of the expander/power supply, fit them inside the case/bellows, adapt it to use battery power, and install compact speakers under the grille.

1 - Using the older style MIDI systems... no, they were too bulky and mandated a 110 volt connnection to work.
2 - With the exception of models like Elkavox (old style) and Concerto (modern style) and MusicTech, there are other MIDI systems are integrated in to the accordion like the LIMEX systems, but they have their own challenges. BTW, the Limex does require a 110 volt connection to be in the chain to power the internal MIDI.

I love my Beltuna, like the Limex for the incredible quality mic system... not so fond of the MIDI setup, but the sounds it has are pretty good.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

I had a SEM Ciao, and traded it in when it became apparent that it developed problems, and I’ve been told that they all develop some sort of problem down the line. The dealer I traded it (and a couple of other small accordions) in for wanted to do some experiments with it. I don’t know what became of that project because I found that same dealer to be unreliable in other ways and I lost touch with him.

The acoustic accordion that I got as part of the trade deal has midi in it, but still requires that external box and a line voltage source. The MIDI was made by Master Production which is located in Castelfidardo. The accordion was made by Cooperfisa, which is located in Vercelli. The accordion was shipped from Vercelli to Castelfidardo for the MIDI and mike installation, shipped back to Cooperfisa to be checked, and finally shipped to the dealer. It’s a stock accordion, but took almost as long to get to me after ordering it as a custom instrument.

The MIDI’s construction is more robust than that of the Ciao, both inside the accordion and in that external box. It has a tone list that’s identical to that in the Ciao, but the sounds seem richer. However, the firing cable, which has 25-pin connectors at both ends seems home-made. The same MIDI unit (Master Play Midi) forms the basis for other products made by Master: a flat keyboard, a reedless accordion and what is called in the USA an AxE-Cordion (I have one.) Their all overpriced, IMHO.

 

[dak]

I was wondering if it was conceivably possible to take the guts of the expander/power supply, fit them inside the case/bellows, adapt it to use battery power, and install compact speakers under the grille.

There will be too many space constraints. If you do manage to cut down size and get to battery operation, i think it would make more sense constructing a belt for the batteries and speakers and expanders. Less weight on the shoulders.

 

[NewtoReeds]

There will be too many space constraints. If you do manage to cut down size and get to battery operation, i think it would make more sense constructing a belt for the batteries and speakers and expanders. Less weight on the shoulders.

That's a thought! I'm sure I could find a suitable belt at a military surplus store. This whole idea came about because I was playing my Lyra Student Model in my son's room last night and one of the accidental keys caps( the lowest F # I believe, but I'd need to look again) fell off and I decided to pack that one away before any other caps followed suit and divorced themselves from the instrument. So I took the Ciao out and found myself wishing the whole thing was more portable, as dragging the rather heavy keyboard amp into my son's room was a non-option, as is leaving it in his room (toddler toys and furniture take a lot of floor space).

 

[dak]

That's a thought! I'm sure I could find a suitable belt at a military surplus store. This whole idea came about because I was playing my Lyra Student Model in my son's room last night and one of the accidental keys caps( the lowest F # I believe, but I'd need to look again) fell off and I decided to pack that one away before any other caps followed suit and divorced themselves from the instrument. So I took the Ciao out and found myself wishing the whole thing was more portable, as dragging the rather heavy keyboard amp into my son's room was a non-option, as is leaving it in his room (toddler toys and furniture take a lot of floor space).

Just how heavy is that keyboard amp? I have a Peavey KB/A 50 (essentially the Chinese variant of the KB/A 30) and it's in the 15kg range and packs more punch than you need for putting a bass accordion and MIDI expander at ensemble level. And at son's room level, even smaller amps should work fine.

 

[NewtoReeds]

Just how heavy is that keyboard amp? I have a Peavey KB/A 50 (essentially the Chinese variant of the KB/A 30) and it's in the 15kg range and packs more punch than you need for putting a bass accordion and MIDI expander at ensemble level. And at son's room level, even smaller amps should work fine.

I would say it's close to 50lbs (21-ish kg). And it shakes my whole condominium. I definitely feel it's overkill for my needs, but it came with the accordion.

 

[dak]

I would say it's close to 50lbs (21-ish kg). And it shakes my whole condominium. I definitely feel it's overkill for my needs, but it came with the accordion.

Oh, the amp I usually use is about 82lb (37kg) but has wheels. An old Leslie clone, except that both speakers and the crossover have been replaced and I worked on the amp to make it really really quiet. I am not there yet with the Peavey. But I had one done for our accordion ensemble (also adding optional phantom power to its XLR input) and that one was pretty good here and is pretty silent in our practice room (my home is a bit challenging since an overland line starts a few hundred yards from here). I had an 77lb KB300 amp from Peavey at one time (that one was actually hum-proof out of the box) and a lighter KB100 (which needed a bit of improvement), but I sold both of them again after fixing/improving them because I'm not going to keep more than one real monster and the Leslie clone, while not just as powerful, is pretty nice.

 

[Squeezeplay]

I have put midi in a couple accordions, I use a 5volt battery inside the accordion, hook a widi to the out side of the midi system.
It gives me the acoustic accordion sound, as well as the sounds from my Ketron arranger. My arranger is battery powered, as is my speaker No cords anywhere. I control the arranger programs with an I pad. It works well, but you need to be a little on the handy side to do it. The speaker is a behringer 60 watt. More than enough power. Wireless bug to go from the arranger to the amp/speaker…..It gives me sound from the accordion, or from the arranger, or both. The the names areh on the I pad. Touch the tune name, the I pad automatically sets the arranger/sound module to what ever I have previously decided I want .