Deleted member 48
Thanks for sharing that video about rearranging the keys to a symmetrical layout on the midi keyboard !
Jeez, that's interesting... Where did you get that from? Thanks a lot! It sure helps to be German (as in my case!) Yet, even without any help I'm getting into it buy just practicing this Janko layout by ear without even looking at the keyboard until my fingers find their way. - Gradually, they'll get used to the location of they desired notes. I have good musical hearing and that helps me to stay musically in tune and so, progess.If useful for your 6+6 Janko accordion, I have a few more hyperlinks with documents about uniform 6+6 PA keyboard layouts.
Heinrich Josef Vincent (1875): Die Neuklaviatur (The "new" PA layout 6+6, you can find a lot about grip schemes and fingering here):
The Virtual Laboratory - Essays and Resources on the Experimentalization of Life between 1800 and 1930vlp.mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de
- Vincent, Heinrich Josef. 1862. Neues musikalisches System. Die Einheit in der Tonwelt.
- Vincent, Heinrich Josef. 1875. Die Neuklaviatur. Ihre Vortheile gegenüber den Nachteilen der alten
This person has uploaded some YT videos with a 6+6 uniform keyboard PA accordion:
Säkkijärven polka - Håkan Widar , Uniform Keyboard accordion
You probably already read this article about the history of the 6+6 PA layout:
The earliest mentioning about a whole tone keyboard 6+6 layout was by Juan Caramuel y Lobkowitz (1606-1682) around 1654 in Prague.
Patrizio Barbieri: “Juan Caramuel y Lobkowitz: Uber die musikalischen Logarithmen” (point 3, pages 153-156 , a sketch of the history of many "inventors" of this 6+6 layout, Barbieri says there are way too many "inventors" to list up in his article, hundreds of persons have claimed to be the inventor in the 19th century of this 6+6 layout).
Barbieri, Patrizio. "Gli ingegnosi cembali e 'violicembali' inventati da Juan Caramuel Lobkowitz per Ferdinando III (c. 1650): notizie inedite dal manoscritto Musica", Comune di Vigevano, Vigevano, 1990, pp. 91-112.
Grip schemes for triads for whole tone keyboards:
Gardner Read is a must read for everyone interested in the history of music notation reforms.
About new music notation reforms, here is another recent notation system that tries to simplify music notation, called "Notus":
(I'm sticking to my personal favorite, the numbered music notation by Emile-Joseph-Maurice Chevé, a music key independent notation system, based on relations between notes. Because my CBA accordion also is a key independent equal intervals music instrument. It's a marriage made in heaven. )
If you are looking for reasons why Paul von Janko used a 6 rows keyboard, I'm sure you can find some answers in his 1886 (online !) 68 pages book in German:
Jankó, Paul von. 1886. Eine neue Claviatur. Theorie und Beispiele zur Einführung in die Praxis. Wien: Verlag von Em. Wetzler (Julius Engelmann) (Staatliches Institut für Musikforschung)
Janko has inserted fingerings and grip schemes in his 1886 booklet.
you can read or download it here:
That's right, I also believe that modern computer technology is able to convert traditional notation into any other type of notation. The main reason why the Janko Kbd layout failed was tha teachers feared losing 10 years of wages and losing their hard-earned proficieny on the traditional zebra piano. "Why make it easier if it can be done more complicated?", was and still is their moto! The difference between Janko a zebra piano layout is like remembering a phone number: Janko= 9999999999 Zebra= 1987654038 Which number is easier to remember?There is one way to produce sheet music with alternative notations, and that is the use of ICT software. Conversion programs that will convert traditional staff notation into alternative notations.
Artificial intelligence is used in sheet music notation, so it can help with conversion or transcription.
For 6+6 Janko system players, this music notation is a 6+6 system:
Interval relationships between notes are clearly and consistently represented in alternative music notation systems with a 6-6 pitch pattern.musicnotation.org
Some music notation programs have conversion tools. So you if you can import the sheet music, you can do automatic conversion.
An informatician or programmer could also develop agorithms to provide automatic (alternative) fingerings on the notated sheet generated by the computer system. But they would have to generate different alternatives for the fingerings, because people want different options and choose what's suits them best.
The reality is complexer than a theoretical model, but AI can be created for piano or accordion fingering learning processes.
All we need is a 12 year Frisco or Beijing ICT whizzkid playing piano or accordion.
The video is in Chinese, but you can follow how imported staff notation sheet music is enriched with a numbered solo top melody line (the 7 numbers refer to the Jianpu or originally the Souhaitty-Rousseau-Chevé French numbered system):
Jianpu in Musescore 2 教程五 - 簡譜
At the end of this YT video you can see the numbers above the staff, those numbers is all I need to play it on my accordion. I just add the bass chord scale degrees in Roman numbers from I to VII
I both use traditional staff music notation and numbered music notation.
The Emile Chevé system in combination with CBA is my lottery ticket to music heaven as a hobby accordionist.
I read it much faster and easier than traditional staff music notation (and I did my 10 years music school learning to read and write trad staff notation. I even took extra classes for the ut clefs they use in cello notation or for conducting orchestras)
The main reason why the Janko Kbd layout failed was tha teachers feared losing 10 years of wages and losing their hard-earned proficieny on the traditional zebra piano. "Why make it easier if it can be done more complicated?", was and still is their moto! The difference between Janko a zebra piano layout is like remembering a phone number: Janko= 9999999999 Zebra= 1987654038 Which number is easier to remember?
I used to enjoy playing the accordion by ear. That's how I learned to play the piano accordion reasonably well; yet merely in C-major and A-minor. I found it absurd to repeat the same in 22 more grossly irregular scale patterns. Now that Janko offers me exactly what I always dreamed of, I'm committed to practice my Janko Kbd until my fingers & brain gets rewired.... at any costs and efforts, for I know all too well how much more demanding the traditional zebra piano Kbd is.About Jankò keyboard, that's right, unfortunately. And it's still complicated to find Jankò instruments.
However, about music notation, there are far too many alternative music notation systems, and all claim to be the one and true future system. None of the new systems do have a reasonable amount of tunebooks available. Learning to read traditionnal notation systems is not very complicated, as far as I remember, and then you have millions of sheet music available.
In his "Source Book of Proposed Music Notation Reforms" Gardner Read presents an impressive survey of 961 proposed notational reforms that appeared between 1657 and 1983 ... All entries include bibliographic information, and most are accompanied by an illustrative passage in both traditional notation and the proposed system. In addition, each proposal is followed by an evaluation of its relative merits or shortcomings, wherein Read comments shrewdly on the proposed system in particular and notational systems in general. There are nine appendixes of useful comparative tables.
And since 1983 there are about several dozens new ones ... how will one of these ever replace the old system I don't know, ymmv.
I agree - however, for people who acquired practice on the lousy zebra piano accordion, the Janko layout is far more easy to relearn, than starting anew with a totally different layout. Yet, I would prefer the CBA's compactness.Very interesting story, jjj. I wish you the best of your luck with the janko. Isn't it the same with cba (chromatic button accordion) that you play the same in every key?
Yes, you're right, my Paolo Soprani weighted about 12 kg and was a drag in my arms. After I suffered a clavicular dislocation (after a motorcycle accident) and problems with tendonities in my left arm, I switched to whistling.Corinto,
Great example of whistling (and stand up comedy), thanks for sharing
As everyone (in theory) can whistle, here's an alternative musical option for anyone finding their accordion becoming unbearably heavy!
True, Profi-musicians acquired mastery of this irregular zebra piano and I truly admire and respect their achievements. It's only their zebra Kbd layout that I regard as awkward and outdated, because Janko Kbd layout proves to be so much more progressive in every regard. Somebody is to blame for it and we all know who it is... That's what I deplore.you really should consider climbing to the TOP of the mountain,
and looking out over creation
before espousing such notions
which suggest your perspective is currently
severely limited to looking out a basement window
was Martin Luther truly aiming "to perpetuate this zebra madness for their selfish benefit"
and does your interesting little Janko keyboard also fit right in
with regions of the Earth which do not follow or recognize
the 12 note Western Scale ? shall we also switch to the DVORAK keyboard
and shed our reliance on all that is familiar and comfortable ?
i am delighted at your enthusiasm, and your success on the workbench,
but really there is no need to scorch the earth of every other method
of making Music
Thx Dingo40 for your appreciation. You listen to other whistlers on Youtube and compare their Ave Maria to mine. That's what emotional creativity in whistling is all about. It's about incorporating the soul into the melody, which is the hallmark of any musician. Late Klaus Wunderlich for instance, was not only an admirable organist , but an even greater musician.jjj333,
Most impressive whistling !
Thanks for sharing the MP3s