Chinese accordions

[JIM D.]

After reading Stephen's post on Chinese boxes, I must admit his opinions echo my personal feelings and experience with the current models of low priced China boxes on the market today. There are some impressive higher priced models that are imported and their quality is not unlike the quality found on some German boxes. The down side of these better made China imports is that they are overpriced and have a high depreciation rate.

 

[jarvo]

After reading Stephens post on Chinese boxes, I must admit his opinions echo my personal feelings and experience with the current models of low priced China boxes on the market today. There are some impressive higher priced models that are imported and their quality is not unlike the quality found on some German boxes. The down side of these better made China imports is that they are overpriced and have a high depreciation rate.

So in that case JIm , and I am not picking a fight here but asking in genuine shock and outrage ....perhaps naievely....why are some dealers happy to peddle this tat and not say to the Chinese manufacturers ...you know what ...this stuff is s***t , shove it back where it came from......?

Not Happy

 

[JIM D.]

The Italian and German accordion makers have given the Chinese an opening in the accordion market. As the average wage earner cannot afford the prices that a new good quality Italian accordion goes for today. The German models are also overpriced for their quality of workmanship. The market needs a low priced starter model accordion and the Chinese have stepped into the gap. The problem with these so called affordable China boxes is their crude workmanship and rapid depreciation. This situation has helped the market for the Roland "V" accordion line as you can purchase a roland model that compares to an acoustic Italian make for 1/3 of the price.

 

[jarvo]

The Italian and German accordion makers have given the Chinese an opening in the accordion market. As the average wage earner cannot afford the prices that a new good quality Italian accordion goes for today. The German models are also overpriced for their quality of workmanship. The market needs a low priced starter model accordion and the Chinese have stepped into the gap. The problem with these so called affordable China boxes is their crude workmanship and rapid depreciation. This situation has helped the market for the Roland V accordion line as you can purchase a roland model that compares to an acoustic Italian make for 1/3 of the price.

JIM D first please let me assure you that I am not having a pop at you , I really appreciate your candour and your honesty in these posts.

Second it may be my Quixotic naiveity and lack of understanding of business .... ...I am the most irritating and peurile dick on this forum most of the time......but I genuinely wish that people can get the best bang for their buck and it seriously disturbs me that if Italo/Deutsch companies are over priced/over valued and that has let Shite (no apology ) companies to set up in Dodge then shame on the industry...this indicates that there is no love for the product,despite the marketing rhetoric ...love for the lira ,dollar euro whatever and screw the customer........I may be wearing my heart on my sleeve here ..but at least its honest.

 

[Deleted member 48]

On the internet you can read the Parrot Accordion branch in Tianjin went into bankruptcy

http://www.baidiyq.com/culture.asp
Tianjin bai-di Musical Instruments Co. Ltd was founded in 2004. After the bankruptcy of the tianjin branch of Parrot Accordion Company, we reorganized their skilled workers and outstanding production managers to compose our musical company.

http://www.baidiyq.com/about.asp
Founded in year 2004, Tianjin Baidi Musical Instrument Co., Ltd. is a professional accordion manufacturer which is reorganized by the key technicians and team leaders of the previous Tianjin Musical Factory who was famous for the “PARROIT” accordion in the past.

On this website it reads: Rather than purse the best fame and profit, Baidi people all the time pursue the best quality of our products. We believe customer’s praise is more valuable than gold or silver.
LOL
Gold or silver... ?
Ring a bell?
Do we still believe in Santa Claus ??
There after our money in the first place, and we know their strategy and tactics.
Once all the fish in their nets, the Chinese will start to raise prices for the same (shit) quality...
They try to take over the European Accordion makers and market.
But indeed, its the greed of some European and USA accordion makers and sellers that gave the Chinese a window of opportunities.

But I honestly think, even for the Chinese it will almost be impossible to make a top quality accordion for a low price. Even with their bottom salary policy, you just cant afford to:
- use low quality materials
- speed up the assemblage process
- delete the quality control check after the assemblage

Since the 1950s the Chinese had to close down and restart new accordion companies, there is no short cut to quality for accordions (too many parts inside...)

German and Italian accordions are not overpriced. (Maybe some topmodels indeed are slightly overpriced, but not the small and beginners models that are made inside the EU ).
The Italian and German accordions have very reasonable prices, taken into consideration the amount of work hours and quality control, etc. What really makes the prices go up, are the dealers and sellers who want to take their profits... We cant blame the accordion industry for the greed of (some) sellers.
Price differences are mostly due to salary policies and social security and labour laws, costs for quality materials, quality machinery, sales network, etc
The real problem of the accordion industry, is that demand is still too low from the side of children, beginners, and other types of customers. Since 1950s-1960s Elvis Presley and Bill Haley breakthrough, all youth wants to play rock on the electric/folk guitar, and they still invest their pocket money into guitars. Thats the real problem, the accordion market is in the first place: not enough starters, players who want to replace their old accordions by new ones.
Tips for solutions? Difficult, who can try to persuade young children to play the accordion? Thats the real challenge !

Professional accordion players and connaisseurs usually dont fall into the gap or trap the Chinese set up, they still go for the top quality instruments.
Most of the time its the beginners who are fooled, and loose more money than they had hoped to save.

 

[goldtopia]

Most people starting on accordions won't pay out for a new accordion. They usually buy a small second hand accordion of any make or nationality to see if they can learn to play it. If after a while they think they can, they are more likely to move up to a 72 bass or more. Unless they particularly want a small light accordion just for Morris dances, jigs & reels. For this reason new small accordions like 32 or 48 bass don't sell so well. I had a new Weltmeister 60 bass Rubin compact for a while but discovered that I wanted a three voice and a few more buttons and longer keyboard. The restrictions of smaller accordions just to try them out, make buying new to be unnecessary which is why they don't sell so well.

 

[Tom]

The problem is the lack of boutique makers in the US and UK, let's see, if you could make the wood case and bellows yourself, purchase the other raw parts, reeds, bass mechanism, keys, etc. Could you build one in 3 weeks? Sell each one for $8500. Make about 10 a year with a small talented and dedicated staff? Locate in an old abandoned industrial building on the east coast and decide on either an ultra chic trendy motif or back to old world traditioanl one and live the good life?

Why isn't anyone doing this? There are tons of boutique guitar and violin makers under every stone, even Some Cajun accordion makers have popped up down south there hey, why not the piano accordion? The time is right! join the revolution! No more cheap Chinese crap! Now I feel better, almost jarvo like.

 

[Puxto]

Ha, I'm liking where this is going.. :lol:

 

[jarvo]

Yeah...let's start a movement......

 

[Tom]

Accordions Unite!

 

[Deleted member 48]

This is exactly what the Italians in the Ancona and Castelfidardo region have done , they have united into cooperative structures
See:
http://www.music-marche.com/en/aims.htm
http://www.music-marche.com/en/associates.htm
http://www.music-marche.com/en/quality.htm
http://www.music-marche.com/en/forgery.htm

The Italians in Castelfidardo and other regions in Italy have been doing this for decades, they aimed for quality and midprice and high end accordions.
By focusing on small scale quality production, they are able to quickly respond to changes in demand from the customers (change in colors for cases, bellows, embellishments, range of models, natural wood cases, celluloid cases, ... ).

Accordion companies that were specialised in mass production (like Hohner, some Chinese 1970s-1980s makers, ...) were less able to quickly redirect production chaines and processes...

a large ship is less maneuverable than a tiny boat
In the end it was the Hohner and Chinese ships that sank to the bottom...

The Italians are still rowing their rubber boats...
The fact that the Italians couldnt follow mass demand from the customers in the 1920s-1960s, became their rescue.
Their weakness became their strength... Ironic isnt it?

Ernst Hohner thought the Elvis, Bill Haley, Beatles, Rolling Stones craze, was just a hype that would pass.
He couldnt have been more wrong...

 

[Guernseyman]

I saved long and hard to purchase a top end hand made Italian instrument recently as many of you know. It is a pro instrument but I'm an amateur but have been playing for many years for fun and I would say, it was worth every penny. The quality of workmanship is extraordinary, the sound amazing and it is leagues ahead of anything I have played in the past, so much so, that I am saving up to buy another. Like all things in life, you get what you pay for. Buy crap and you get it!

 

[goldtopia]

Guernseyman, of interest, what was the accordion you saved up long and hard for ?

 

[AccordionUprising]

The problem is the lack of boutique makers in the US...

I know that Main Squeeze accordions in New York is doing something like this. There may be more. http://mainsqueeze-nyc.com/shop/

Im not sure if hes rebranding custom imports or building them there. I think the cost of specialized labour is just too high domestically. As you say theres a few people making button-boxes in Louisiana and Quebec, but I cant think of any small piano makers.

The reason Marc Savoy and now others started making button-boxes was because there were no quality alternatives available at the time. I suspect that if there were great sounding one-row boxes available to him in 1960 he might not have made his own. Meanwhile there are millions of fair-to-decent piano accordions still around and playable. Anybody who wants a nicer one can look to boutiques in Europe, which is what most of them are. Victoria makes what, 30-some instruments a year? (I could be wrong, but theyre not rolling out guitars).

Accordions are expensive, guitars and electric keyboards are cheap. Not much to be done about that unless you make everybody unplug. (How hard it is to plug in and amplify accordions is another issue that holds it back.)

Im encouraged by the extremely wide variety of musicians who are playing the accordion nowadays (and willing to pay something for it.) It wont return to its former dominance, but it should stick around.

 

[arthurson]

people in china generally believe BAILE 903 is the most reliable model now. it sounds good and comfortable to play, much better than hohner bravo in different aspects.



the retail price is around us $1500, maybe they have another brand name for export, not cheap when you compare it with second-hand italian accordion.

while BAILE 805 is considered to be the best chinese brand accordion , only few of them are produced in 80s.