Buzzing on reeds

[Jaime_Dergut]

Hello everybody,

so, since some months ago, I noticed that one the keys on my Honner has gone out of tune for it's musette register.

So, I tried to find out what was the issue of this.

Generally, I could not find any visible problem with it. So I guessed the problem was that the leather (or plastic, in this case) cover was the issue, so I covered it with teflon tape in order to prevent it from buzzing, and some red tape to hold it in place, but that didn't solve the issue.

So, I tried blowing up that particular reed ( I haven't made my bellow tester yet) and I realized that, if I hold the reed plate with something hard, the buzzing stops.

My conclusion was then that the reed plate was not attached firmly to the reedblock by the wax. So it needs to be rewaxed.

But I don't know how to do that yet, and I am not confident enough to try it on my expensive Hohner myself, so what I did was something more conventional.



I sneaked in some teflon tape between the gaps of the surrounding reed plates, so that will help to hold that one in place while transfering those vibrations to the reed block.

The result was that, it worked! The musette sound is back with its tremolo on it and I am satisfied. I was also able to fix a similar issue on a low reed plate. I know, it looks messy, but still worked.

Of course, this is a cheap fix until I am confident enough to rewax the whole thing myself.

What do you all think about this? Any advice? Suggestions? Destruc... I mean, constructive criticism?

Thanks for your time and attention.

Regards,

Jaime

 

[debra]

This is of course anything but a proper fix... but at least you did not resort to bathroom silicone or all-purpose glue. No permanent damage done, but the real fix is to put a proper new valve on and use new wax to hold the reed plate in place. Not the most difficult of repair jobs. When you get around to doing the wax, put some masking tape over the reed plates so any wax you spill gets only on the (temporary) tape and not on the reed plate, valves or reed tongues.

 

[boxplayer4000]

Jaime: After removing the white teflon and the other white material between the reeds another temporary solution might be to make use of the two nails at the head of the reed. That is, remove the nails with a knife blade pushed under their heads and re-locate them to a 'fresh' position (a couple of mm will do). The important thing is to NOT use a hammer to fix the nails but to use a pair of pliers to hold the nail head and to press the nail into position. It's easier than you think. (Since it sounds like the wax is ageing and may be loosing its grip using a hammer would simply loosen other reeds nearby and multiply your problem.)
With a bit of luck it will leave your accordion playable until you get the means and time to make permanent repairs.

 

[Pipemajor]

Jaime: After removing the white teflon and the other white material between the reeds another temporary solution might be to make use of the two nails at the head of the reed. That is, remove the nails with a knife blade pushed under their heads and re-locate them to a 'fresh' position (a couple of mm will do). The important thing is to NOT use a hammer to fix the nails but to use a pair of pliers to hold the nail head and to press the nail into position. It's easier than you think. (Since it sounds like the wax is ageing and may be loosing its grip using a hammer would simply loosen other reeds nearby and multiply your problem.)
With a bit of luck it will leave your accordion playable until you get the means and time to make permanent repairs.

Rather than change the position of the nails, making fresh holes, you could try JimD's solution of removing the nails, putting a drop of water in the holes and leave for the water to swell the wood back again, then replace the nails.

 

[Dingo40]

Or you could place a sliver of flat toothpick in the hole (with or without a touch of PVA glue) before replacing the nail.
A buzzing sound is a common symptom of a loose reed plate, as is a "click" on changing bellows direction.

 

[debra]

Jaime: After removing the white teflon and the other white material between the reeds another temporary solution might be to make use of the two nails at the head of the reed. That is, remove the nails with a knife blade pushed under their heads and re-locate them to a 'fresh' position (a couple of mm will do). The important thing is to NOT use a hammer to fix the nails but to use a pair of pliers to hold the nail head and to press the nail into position. It's easier than you think. (Since it sounds like the wax is ageing and may be loosing its grip using a hammer would simply loosen other reeds nearby and multiply your problem.)
With a bit of luck it will leave your accordion playable until you get the means and time to make permanent repairs.

The function of the nails is to keep the reed plates from falling off when the wax fails. It is *not* to keep the reed plates firmly attached to the reed block to essentially make the wax superfluous. Nails that really hold the reed plate tight are used in accordions with the reed plates on leather or cork gaskets, as used in some French models, and in accordions intended to be used in hot (tropical) climates. On all other accordions it is the wax that really forms the connection between the reed plates and the reed blocks (on all 4 sides) so when the wax lets go it should be replaced. The nails cannot take over the role of the wax.

 

[boxplayer4000]

Pipemajor: I’ve seen that approach suggested, ie. a drop of water in the hole. I have wondered what happened to the grip on the nail when the wood dried out. My wooden garden gate varies in width of about an inch from winter to summer (and then back again). The point being that the water has a only a passing, transient effect.

Dingo40: Thanks. I’ve used the toothpick method too (as well as paper or cardboard) in some situations to line a (or pin) nail hole. In the situation where this nail is located there’s a risk of splitting the wood and I feel that using a new position for the nail presents the lesser chance of splitting.

Debra:
If you read my entry you will see that I explained that the nails were only a temporary solution and there’s no suggestion that they ‘take over the role of wax’ in jaime's accordion.

 

[Pipemajor]

Pipemajor: I’ve seen that approach suggested, ie. a drop of water in the hole. I have wondered what happened to the grip on the nail when the wood dried out

I think the reasoning is that when the nails are originally driven in, they compress the wood to allow the nail to penetrate.
The wood dries out after many years allowing the nail to become loose. The drop of water will then swell the wood back to normal so that when the nail is driven in again it will hold as before.
As I said, this was JimD's advice on here some time ago, not mine.
Perhaps something else, such as a drop of , say, linseed oil, may be better

 

[Dingo40]

Some say, cutting off the points of nails before driving them In reduces the likelihood of splitting the wood.

 

[henry d]

In the "works pretty decently though not 'proper'" category, touching a moderately powered soldering iron to the reedplate of the reed with the failing wax may provide a stopgap (and potentially a years long stopgap) fix.

Get the plate in position with the nails et al inserted, touch the tip of the iron to the reedplate until the wax starts to turn translucent and melt all around the plate. You want it to melt and flow gently around the plate, not turn into a river of liquid wax.

The recongealed wax will probably be less sticky than the original as some of the more volatile components evaporate- but it usually works pretty well.

Usually this will reseal the plate. At worst you'll be no worse off.

 

[landro]

Keep in mind that finding one loose reed plate from dried up wax can be a reminder to be more gentle when handling the accordion. If one came loose the chances of more are vastly increased especially when bumped. I`ve repaired more than one with strips containing multiple reed plates laying in the bellows. Of course with nails helping hold the plates there might be less chance of that happening.

 

[Jaime_Dergut]

This is of course anything but a proper fix... but at least you did not resort to bathroom silicone or all-purpose glue. No permanent damage done,

Of course, I cracked my head a little bit thinking what could work as a temporary solution that I could take easily once I was ready to rewax the reedplate. Teflon tape is a nice choice since is gentle and very easy to remove.

but the real fix is to put a proper new valve on and use new wax to hold the reed plate in place. Not the most difficult of repair jobs. When you get around to doing the wax, put some masking tape over the reed plates so any wax you spill gets only on the (temporary) tape and not on the reed plate, valves or reed tongues.

That's a great idea. Thanks Master Debra.

I am honestly terrified of messing something up when the times comes to do the rewaxing myself. I have an dead accordion that I could use as my test subject for learning before trying that on a "living" accordion.

 

[Jaime_Dergut]

Jaime: After removing the white teflon and the other white material between the reeds another temporary solution might be to make use of the two nails at the head of the reed. That is, remove the nails with a knife blade pushed under their heads and re-locate them to a 'fresh' position (a couple of mm will do). The important thing is to NOT use a hammer to fix the nails but to use a pair of pliers to hold the nail head and to press the nail into position. It's easier than you think. (Since it sounds like the wax is ageing and may be loosing its grip using a hammer would simply loosen other reeds nearby and multiply your problem.)
With a bit of luck it will leave your accordion playable until you get the means and time to make permanent repairs.

I tried working on the nails besides, but as master Debra mentioned, the nails are merely there to hold the reed plate should the wax fails, but they are not really transfering efficiently the vibration energies into the reedblock. It has to be the wax.

Fortunately, the accordion is playable enough until I can get the permanent fix.

 

[Jaime_Dergut]

Or you could place a sliver of flat toothpick in the hole (with or without a touch of PVA glue) before replacing the nail.
A buzzing sound is a common symptom of a loose reed plate, as is a "click" on changing bellows direction.

I haven't thought on using a tooth pick. Good idea. I could use it alongside the teflon tape in order to transfer more efficiently the vibrations energies to the reedblock.

No doubt, I think these plates are getting loose on the wax, just a bit but enough to take out of tune the musette reed and it sounds awful.

 

[Jaime_Dergut]

Debra:
If you read my entry you will see that I explained that the nails were only a temporary solution and there’s no suggestion that they ‘take over the role of wax’ in jaime's accordion.

I actually thought on a solution with the nails, but I just couldn't find a way to use them in order to transfer those vibrations to the reedblock.

I tried gently to nail them down with the edge of a flat screwdriver and using the weight of my pin pliers as hammer, but I was just too scared of breaking something after hitting it the first time. The teflon tape seems to be a more gentle temporary solution.

 

[Jaime_Dergut]

In the "works pretty decently though not 'proper'" category, touching a moderately powered soldering iron to the reedplate of the reed with the failing wax may provide a stopgap (and potentially a years long stopgap) fix.

Get the plate in position with the nails et al inserted, touch the tip of the iron to the reedplate until the wax starts to turn translucent and melt all around the plate. You want it to melt and flow gently around the plate, not turn into a river of liquid wax.

The recongealed wax will probably be less sticky than the original as some of the more volatile components evaporate- but it usually works pretty well.

Usually this will reseal the plate. At worst you'll be no worse off.

How about using a small heat gun instead?

I thought about covering the surrounding reed plates with tin foil and using a heat gun in order to partially melt the wax and get it back in place.

Of course, I won't dare to try this crazy idea until I am certain that I know what I am doing.

 

[Jaime_Dergut]

Keep in mind that finding one loose reed plate from dried up wax can be a reminder to be more gentle when handling the accordion. If one came loose the chances of more are vastly increased especially when bumped. I`ve repaired more than one with strips containing multiple reed plates laying in the bellows. Of course with nails helping hold the plates there might be less chance of that happening.

That's a great point.

This is an accordion that I take with me everywhere on the streets in a soft case. So maybe that contributed to the slight loosening of some reed plates.

 

[debra]

How about using a small heat gun instead?

I thought about covering the surrounding reed plates with tin foil and using a heat gun in order to partially melt the wax and get it back in place.

Of course, I won't dare to try this crazy idea until I am certain that I know what I am doing.

Better than a heat gun is to use a soldering iron (with narrow tip) to melt the wax around the reed plate. Assuming there is still enough wax there, remelting the wax in situ is a temporary fix (that can last a few years). Again, also use the masking tape here because when you remelt the wax some may end up on the reed plates.

 

[Dingo40]

How about using a small heat gun instead?

The problem with using a heat gun, as I see it, would be the "wind" created by the fan in the gun is likely to strip both reed plates and valves from the reed blocks (especially once the wax has softened) and scatter everything higgledy-piggledy all over the place .
I wouldn't try it!

 

[boxplayer4000]

I tried working on the nails besides, but as master Debra mentioned, the nails are merely there to hold the reed plate should the wax fails, but they are not really transfering efficiently the vibration energies into the reedblock. It has to be the wax.

Jaime: Debra does explain earlier that some accordions use only nails to hold the reeds. Some use only wax. Some, like yours, use both ( a situation which is known as 'belt and braces' in some places. A couple of well placed nails will keep you in business until you get round to a more permanent repair.