Button free bass c griff third minor accordion

[SirFabio]

Hello,

I'm Fabio and I'm writing from Italy. I'm goigng to buy a button free bass c griff third minor accordion. I considerer principally also used accordion because my budget is about 3000 €. I'm searching models like:

- B. 16c - 52 converter (Zerosette Accordion) zerosette

- Zerosette Bayan-Bayan B.31 (Zerosette)

Can anyone help me?

Thank you

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[EdBouchard]

Hi Fabio! For your price range I recommend an electronic accordion like a Roland v accordion. While a v accordion won’t match up to a top-line acoustic accordion or bayan, they are very fine instruments. I got my first Roland when I was playing in a musical that performed 5 nights a week. Had to send my wonderful acoustic in for emergency repairs. It has a C-system/stradella converter free bass. I was able to find a used Roland Fr3s that served the purpose quite well.
All the Roland v accordions can be configured to B- C- and a couple other free bass options fairly easily. IMHO, that makes them a better choice except for the top-line instruments that are far more costly.

 

[debra]

Hello,

I'm Fabio and I'm writing from Italy. I'm goigng to buy a button free bass c griff third minor accordion. I considerer principally also used accordion because my budget is about 3000 €. I'm searching models like:

- B. 16c - 52 converter (Zerosette Accordion) zerosette

- Zerosette Bayan-Bayan B.31 (Zerosette)

Can anyone help me?

Thank you

The first one you mention (52 notes, 3 voice, no cassotto) is something you might find used within your budget, but you have to be patient.
The second one (61 notes, 4 voice, cassotto) you will very likely not find (used) even if you have more patience and search for two years or more. And if you find one for sale on-line at that price it is going to be 99,9% chance a scam.

 

[SirFabio]

The first one you mention (52 notes, 3 voice, no cassotto) is something you might find used within your budget, but you have to be patient.
The second one (61 notes, 4 voice, cassotto) you will very likely not find (used) even if you have more patience and search for two years or more. And if you find one for sale on-line at that price it is going to be 99,9% chance a scam.

Thank you for your reply.
Yes, your reasoning is correct.
Today, I found this Pigini that has 7 chin register, Magnatera reeds in the basses place and Binci reed in the right hand. This instrument is very complete but I'm not yet decided on buying it because I'm scared of the weight and the oldness of the accordion. Price 2800 €.






Than I found this accordion Borsini. It has 3 chin register, 52 notes in the right hand and 49 notes in the left hand. CAGNONI reeds. 2000€.
For this accordion I'm scared of the oldness of the accordion but I believe it is in good condition.
Can you give me your opinion?
Thank you.
Best Regards

 

[dak]

Thank you for your reply.
Yes, your reasoning is correct.
Today, I found this Pigini that has 7 chin register, Magnatera reeds in the basses place and Binci reed in the right hand. This instrument is very complete but I'm not yet decided on buying it because I'm scared of the weight and the oldness of the accordion. Price 2800 €.






Than I found this accordion Borsini. It has 3 chin register, 52 notes in the right hand and 49 notes in the left hand. CAGNONI reeds. 2000€.
For this accordion I'm scared of the oldness of the accordion but I believe it is in good condition.
Can you give me your opinion?
Thank you.
Best Regards

You need to get your "oldness" fear out of your head. I don't see warped valves. The wax (where the images are good enough to see) looks to be reasonable too. This looks like a really high-class accordion with a very reasonable price that would leave some leeway for a checkup/fixup, even though it appears to be in good shape. Having different reed manufacturers (both high class) left and right suggests that the reeds have not been chosen merely for best individual performance but good musical joint behavior. There are no images of the Borsini. They are a top class brand sound for sure. I am not a particular fan of the typical Pigini sound, but that doesn't change that they produce really good accordions as well.

 

[SirFabio]

You need to get your "oldness" fear out of your head. I don't see warped valves. The wax (where the images are good enough to see) looks to be reasonable too. This looks like a really high-class accordion with a very reasonable price that would leave some leeway for a checkup/fixup, even though it appears to be in good shape. Having different reed manufacturers (both high class) left and right suggests that the reeds have not been chosen merely for best individual performance but good musical joint behavior. There are no images of the Borsini. They are a top class brand sound for sure. I am not a particular fan of the typical Pigini sound, but that doesn't change that they produce really good accordions as well.

Thank you for your reply. You can see the images of Borsini in the attachment section.
Best Regards

 

[dak]

Thank you for your reply. You can see the images of Borsini in the attachment section.
Best Regards

The attachment contains a mixture of instruments. The first image presumably shows the Pigini and has a cassotto. I see some leather valves somewhat open: presumably they lost a booster spring. The overall shape is still good, but it would make sense to spend an hour of basic maintenance.

The Borsini inside photograph is rather limited in quality. It uses plastic valves for a few higher reeds and leather for the bulk. This should make for a sweet sound quality where it counts while not compromising response in the higher range. The valves look fine, the wax cannot be judged with a photograph of that quality.

The Borsini's reed block arrangement looks to me like using a déclassement (just the L reed in a cassotto-like sound, distributed across 3 reed block halves, making the second from the top thicker in order to add some separation between the L reeds and the others). With large keyboard ranges, that gives you a choice between in-cassotto and out-of-cassotto registrations for much of the range by choosing L or M as the lowest reed set. Paul de Bra likes to call this "poor man's cassotto"; I disagree with that classification. With regard to maintenance, it makes tuning easier and pallet replacement (which you will not likely need for an accordion of this vintage unless the instrument was unused for so long that it managed getting a carpet beetle or cloth moth problem) harder. One advantage is that the 2-reed tremolo is created from similar-sounding reed sets.

Wait: it has no tremolo, right? Looks like the reed sets are, from top to bottom, L, H, and M. A compact instrument. A very good one, but you won't be playing folk music on it in style.

 

[Walker]

Hello,

I'm Fabio and I'm writing from Italy. I'm goigng to buy a button free bass c griff third minor accordion. I considerer principally also used accordion because my budget is about 3000 €. I'm searching models like:

- B. 16c - 52 converter (Zerosette Accordion) zerosette

- Zerosette Bayan-Bayan B.31 (Zerosette)

Can anyone help me?

Thank you

​

​

Hello Fabio, I wish you a very warm welcome to the Accordionists Forum!

You know Fabio, I recognised your face as soon as I saw your photo. It is a sheer delight to see such a great maestro here! I have a particular interest in the Italian fisarmonica Classica - particularly for free bass system of fifths (Quint system). I also play Quint free bass but not as good as you!

I understand you wish to obtain a C system button accordion... I'm sure you can be excellent on both piano accordion with Quint and button accordion with minor thirds (C system). Best wishes to you in your search!

For those who do not know of Fabio, he is an excellent musician:


Ciao!

 

[SirFabio]

The attachment contains a mixture of instruments. The first image presumably shows the Pigini and has a cassotto. I see some leather valves somewhat open: presumably they lost a booster spring. The overall shape is still good, but it would make sense to spend an hour of basic maintenance.

The Borsini inside photograph is rather limited in quality. It uses plastic valves for a few higher reeds and leather for the bulk. This should make for a sweet sound quality where it counts while not compromising response in the higher range. The valves look fine, the wax cannot be judged with a photograph of that quality.

The Borsini's reed block arrangement looks to me like using a déclassement (just the L reed in a cassotto-like sound, distributed across 3 reed block halves, making the second from the top thicker in order to add some separation between the L reeds and the others). With large keyboard ranges, that gives you a choice between in-cassotto and out-of-cassotto registrations for much of the range by choosing L or M as the lowest reed set. Paul de Bra likes to call this "poor man's cassotto"; I disagree with that classification. With regard to maintenance, it makes tuning easier and pallet replacement (which you will not likely need for an accordion of this vintage unless the instrument was unused for so long that it managed getting a carpet beetle or cloth moth problem) harder. One advantage is that the 2-reed tremolo is created from similar-sounding reed sets.

Wait: it has no tremolo, right? Looks like the reed sets are, from top to bottom, L, H, and M. A compact instrument. A very good one, but you won't be playing folk music on it in style.

Thanks a lot for the answer.
Yes, the Borsini does not have a tremolo, it is a simple free bass accordion without the cassotto.
If you had to choose between these two models which would you choose?
Thank you.
Best Regards

 

[SirFabio]

Hello Fabio, I wish you a very warm welcome to the Accordionists Forum!

You know Fabio, I recognised your face as soon as I saw your photo. It is a sheer delight to see such a great maestro here! I have a particular interest in the Italian fisarmonica Classica - particularly for free bass system of fifths (Quint system). I also play Quint free bass but not as good as you!

I understand you wish to obtain a C system button accordion... I'm sure you can be excellent on both piano accordion with Quint and button accordion with minor thirds (C system). Best wishes to you in your search!

For those who do not know of Fabio, he is an excellent musician:


Ciao!

Thank you for your very kind words towards me and thanks for the welcome.
I mainly enjoy playing organ music on my accordion and often look at the best transcriptions made for my type of instrument.
With the button accordion I would like to play a different repertoire, like contemporary music, which is normally more difficult to perform on my accordion.

Best Regards

 

[dak]

Thanks a lot for the answer.
Yes, the Borsini does not have a tremolo, it is a simple free bass accordion without the cassotto.
If you had to choose between these two models which would you choose?
Thank you.
Best Regards

I've carefully reexamined the Borsini and I guess my initial diagnosis had been wrong: there is no Déclassement. That means that there is one button row that has its reed chambers behind the keyboard, making it likely that you get an uneven sound distribution across the different keyboard rows, with one keyboard row producing a more cassotto-like tone quality than the others. That could likely end up an annoyance with me if I guess correctly. And this is not a full-size CBA. If I were explicitly looking for a compact in order to add to my portfolio, I would be somewhat tempted to still pick the Borsini since I like the overall Borsini sound better than Pigini. But if you are looking for a good-for-everything CBA converter, the Pigini is definitely the more serious contender.

 

[saundersbp]

Thank you for your very kind words towards me and thanks for the welcome.
I mainly enjoy playing organ music on my accordion and often look at the best transcriptions made for my type of instrument.
With the button accordion I would like to play a different repertoire, like contemporary music, which is normally more difficult to perform on my accordion.

Best Regards

I enjoyed your Bach too - great playing. And congratulations on exploring the button accordion. I'm an organist but prefer to play button accordion too!

 

[SirFabio]

I've carefully reexamined the Borsini and I guess my initial diagnosis had been wrong: there is no Déclassement. That means that there is one button row that has its reed chambers behind the keyboard, making it likely that you get an uneven sound distribution across the different keyboard rows, with one keyboard row producing a more cassotto-like tone quality than the others. That could likely end up an annoyance with me if I guess correctly. And this is not a full-size CBA. If I were explicitly looking for a compact in order to add to my portfolio, I would be somewhat tempted to still pick the Borsini since I like the overall Borsini sound better than Pigini. But if you are looking for a good-for-everything CBA converter, the Pigini is definitely the more serious contender.

Thank You for your reply.
Best Regards