Best glue for reed leathers?

[Shaun_of_the_red]

What is the best type of glue to use for reattaching reed leathers to the reed plate? I’ve read about using gasket shellac from auto parts stores, and I’ve thought of using rubber cement, since it is designed to be removable. What’s your favorite glue? Note: I’m not using Mylar or another synthetic material for the leathers. In fact, my hope is that I can use the original leathers again after reworking them to lie flat.

 

[John M]

I use what debra (Paul) recommended years ago, It is "shoe leather" glue. I bought it from "Furniture Clinic". It is called "Leather Glue PU". I have used it and it works works great on the reed leathers. It is a flexible glue, designed for leather, It remains flexible and will not become hard or brittle once dry.

 

[debra]

Indeed, shoe glue works best, because it keeps a bit of elasticity over time. An old repair guy (Henk Vos) recommended this to me. I started out with buying it in bulk from a shoe repair workshop, keeping it in a jar, but I had to add thinner rather often, so now I just buy Pattex Shoe Glue (hot regular Pattex!). Happens to work very well with plastic valves as well.

 

[tcabot]

I use shoe repair glue too.

It also comes in handy when you need to glue some shoes. Good luck using your auto parts store shellac for that!

 

[Ventura]

Shellac was one of the first if not the first type used
for this purpose, it is explained in the Reuther repair
book, and was liked in part because you could make
your own easily and at need

the reason i still prefer it is simply because it takes
as long as reedwax, usually even longer, for Indian
Head Shellac to dry out and become brittle..

i have never had a single reedleather held in place
by shellac to fall off, and if i had to replace a leaky
valve cover or oil pan gasket, would be glad i had
some on hand.. though to be honest i have left
all my shoe repairs to shoe-repair technicians..

 

[John M]

. . . leaky valve cover or oil pan gasket. . . .

What I have found, works fine, is Permatex Ultra Black made especially for sealing out oil. You apply a thin bead of Utra Black and then tighten the bolts just finger tight. Let the Ultra Black take a set for 1 hour. Then tighten all the bolts about 1/4 turn to put a "squeeze" on the Permatex. It works every time.

 

[Shaun_of_the_red]

What I have found, works fine, is Permatex Ultra Black made especially for sealing out oil. You apply a thin bead of Utra Black and then tighten the bolts just finger tight. Let the Ultra Black take a set for 1 hour. Then tighten all the bolts about 1/4 turn to put a "squeeze" on the Permatex. It works every time.

I’m confused… are these instructions for reed blocks or engine blocks?

 

[Shaun_of_the_red]

I’m a little concerned about the fumes/aromas that might come from the glue… is there a difference between the shellac and the shoe glue in that regard?

 

[John M]

I’m confused… are these instructions for reed blocks or engine blocks?

Engine Blocks. Note in my reply to Ventura, I quoted his comment . . . leaky valve cover or oil pan gasket. . .
The Permatex is to seal out oil. Definitely not for reed blocks.

 

[Dingo40]

is there a difference between the shellac and the shoe glue in that regard?

Shellac is traditionally dissolved in ethanol.

 

[fattmazzio]

I haven't done leather repair for accordion, but for concertinas, shellac for leathers (valves) also seems to be the favorite amongst many repair folk. A major benefit being that it is reversible so that future repairs are relatively easy and non-destructive. There's a good discussion on a concertina forum about best glues to use for various tasks, happy to share link if wanted.

edit: link below
https://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?/topic/506-correct-glues-to-use/

 

[KiwiSqueezer]

There's a good discussion on a concertina forum about best glues to use for various tasks, happy to share link if wanted.

Yes please! I'm getting very frustrated by the difficulty I'm experiencing trying to get useful information about adhesives. Manufacturers keep 'improving' their products and producing new ones, but not releasing much in the way of technical information about them. It is reasonable for them to protect their intellectual property, but the lack of available information encourages a marketplace full of snake oils and misleading claims and beliefs. There's too much choice, but insufficient authoritative information to allow informed choice.

I think there's a lot to be said for going back to the 'traditional' materials, but it seems that the knowledge is either kept guarded, or is dribbling away.

 

[Morgan28]

For reed leathers, gasket shellac is the best it holds well but stays removable with heat. Rubber cement can work, but it’s not as durable. If you’re reusing original leathers, shellac is the way to go. Just warm it to adjust or remove later.

 

[jollyrogeraccordions]

I use UHU solvent free glue. It works v well.

 

[debra]

Yes please! I'm getting very frustrated by the difficulty I'm experiencing trying to get useful information about adhesives. Manufacturers keep 'improving' their products and producing new ones, but not releasing much in the way of technical information about them. ...

The difficulty is that there is no 100% reliable way to guarantee that a new and "improved" glue being introduced will still hold form after 50 years or more. A new glue may be better but we don't really know for sure. A tried and tested glue that repairers have been using for over 50 years and is still holding now may not be the best available today but at least we know it holds for at least 50 years... That's why I recommend shoe glue and other are recommending shellac... these are old but tried and tested glues that are guaranteed to hold for enough decades to outlive most accordions.
If the glue I use doesn't hold for 50 years I'm too old to still see the consequences of my actions, but for young repairers starting out now it really matters that they don't see the glue they use lose its grip after say 25 years...

 

[tcabot]

I’m a little concerned about the fumes/aromas that might come from the glue… is there a difference between the shellac and the shoe glue in that regard?

Yes. To get high you drink shellac; sniff shoe glue. Not the other way round*.

*I feel it's necessary to add a 2025-era nanny state disclaimer: obviously, I'm just joking. Drinking shellac dissolved in meths will kill you faster than sniffing shoe glue, but both will kill you pretty quickly. Say "no" to alcohol, drugs and sex before marriage.

 

[tcabot]

but at least we know it holds for at least 50 years...

So we can sleep in peace, knowing for sure that 30 years down the line the leather valves will be bone-dry and curling, the wax will be cracked and falling off, the reeds will have a layer of grime and rust on them, but at least the valve glue will still be OK, so there's one less thing to worry about.

Nobody ever buys a car/boat/plane/pc/phone/watch/boiler/house and expects it to last 30 years without regular maintenance. But when it comes to musical instruments folks want 100 years of service without spending a penny on servicing.
Aye, right.

 

[KiwiSqueezer]

debra Yes! Absolutely agree.

New materials arrive in the market, but it's often impossible to know what we're dealing with. Plastics replace 'traditional' materials, and then some of them degrade, sometimes years after seeming immortal. OK, I know that celluloid also has its problems... What are plastic valve flaps made from? Some seem to be PVC ('Vinyl'), others may be polyester ('Mylar'). PVC is attacked by toluene, and toluene is present in a lot of adhesives, including some 'shoe glues'. What are 'shoe glues' anyway? There seems to be various formulations. I haven't been able to discover anything useful about the Pattex version, but it's not available here anyway. Several others are, but their ingredients and characteristics are mysterious. Sigh...

fattmazzio Thanks for sharing the link. Interesting discussion. But I'm not sure we've come much further in the 22 years since the discussion...

 

[KiwiSqueezer]

Say "no" to alcohol, drugs and sex before marriage.

What? You should get married before getting blasted?

 

[debra]

So we can sleep in peace, knowing for sure that 30 years down the line the leather valves will be bone-dry and curling, the wax will be cracked and falling off, the reeds will have a layer of grime and rust on them, but at least the valve glue will still be OK, so there's one less thing to worry about.

Nobody ever buys a car/boat/plane/pc/phone/watch/boiler/house and expects it to last 30 years without regular maintenance. But when it comes to musical instruments folks want 100 years of service without spending a penny on servicing.
Aye, right.

The reason I'm wary of new materials when we already have good ones that have been used for many decades is that I have seen enough problems with accordions where newer materials were used, not in the least new glue for valves (that start falling off while playing within 20 years) and also glue used for the pallets: felt+leather stack falling off the pallets (especially from metal pallets), leather not sticking to the felt, the leather getting stuck to the soundboard, like in the infamous "Klebemorino"... wax not sticking to plastic reed blocks, etc., etc.
There is a saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and that certainly applies to known good materials and techniques in accordion construction.
Regular maintenance is still needed, like removing dust, tuning, and once every 30 years or so some rewaxing. But all of this is quite predictable and shouldn't take you buy surprise mid-performance.