Beginner's question about reeds slow to respond.

[gerardo1000]

I am a 70 yrs old beginner and I have just purchased a brand new Hohner Panther diatonic accordion, in G-C-F, that I really like. I noticed that
the lower-pitch left-hand notes on the bass side ( namely the F/C major and C/G major) are relatively slow to speak when closing the bellows.
they are fine instead when I open the bellows. This does not happen with the higher pitched basses and with the chords bass buttons, they all work fine both when I open and close the bellows. I wonder if it is just a matter of giving the accordion time to "break in" ? i.e. to play it more and maybe those reeds will become more responsive? I live in Rochester Hills, here in Michigan there was a well regarded accordion shop and repair center (Castiglione) that unfortunately closed three years ago because the owner passed away, and apparently it is difficult to find a technician that could give me an opinion and possibly assist me. I hope that maybe I can get some answer through this forum. Thank you !

 

[debra]

Accordions (whether diatonic or chromatic) do not really need time to "break in". That is what a sales person would tell you so you shut up.
That low bass reeds may be a bit slow to start, especially on push, is not completely abnormal, but the reeds should be sufficiently responsive to not have a very noticeable delay.
It seems to be a rather common practice in the accordion business to expect people to accept what are just "flaws" of "defects" as being normal. Telling a customer to accept that what you think are flaws is actually "normal behavior" of the instrument is a lot cheaper than admitting there is a flaw and then repairing it...

 

[Scuromondo]

Ha

I am a 70 yrs old beginner and I have just purchased a brand new Hohner Panther diatonic accordion, in G-C-F, that I really like. I noticed that
the lower-pitch left-hand notes on the bass side ( namely the F/C major and C/G major) are relatively slow to speak when closing the bellows.
they are fine instead when I open the bellows. This does not happen with the higher pitched basses and with the chords bass buttons, they all work fine both when I open and close the bellows. I wonder if it is just a matter of giving the accordion time to "break in" ? i.e. to play it more and maybe those reeds will become more responsive? I live in Rochester Hills, here in Michigan there was a well regarded accordion shop and repair center (Castiglione) that unfortunately closed three years ago because the owner passed away, and apparently it is difficult to find a technician that could give me an opinion and possibly assist me. I hope that maybe I can get some answer through this forum. Thank you !

Have you tried locating Yakov Todmorovich? He was Castiglione’s repair guy and I think he may still be teaching in the Troy area

 

[dunlustin]

You will find more people who play Hohner diatonics at this site:
melodeon.net
although the Panther is not the commonest of GCFs in the UK.
I believe a reed may be slow to respond if the gap is set too wide - seek advice - too close and the reed will 'choke.'
Also could it be that pressure on the bellows happens a bit later when pushing.
Finally it is said that some 'boxes' take a while to play in and this will depend on how well the reeds were set up in the first place and the reed quality. For many years in Europe, people swapped out Hohner reeds for those of better quality - just saying.

 

[gerardo1000]

Yakov Todmorovich

Thank you SO much ! Very useful info !

 

[gerardo1000]

Unfortunately Yakov Todmorovich's telephone number is not active anymore...

 

[Scuromondo]

Perhaps you could contact someone from the Michigan Accordion Society. Someone in that group might know of other local resources you could use.

michiganaccordion.org|Teachers

 

[oldbayan]

The Panther is a nice affordable instrument but still an "entry level" kind of accordion, made in China. The reeds are middle-of-the-road quality and may not perform equally. It's possible to do a bit of tweaking of the less responsive reeds but I have seen this issue with many of the Chinese-made Hohner instruments.

 

[trevorhill349]

I just bought a Hohner BRAVO thinking it would be a good move from my N series Settimio Soprani which is over 60 years old. The Hohner has a dissapointing tone by comparison, and what stirred my interest to this post, it has a slow response to Aflat in the upper octave when both MM reeds are employed but only on opening the bellows from closed. It's ok when compressing the bellows, ans it comes in on both reeds when you pull a little harder. It also does this a bit in the master coupler is used . Also using both reeds. I have returned the instrument to the supplier.

 

[debra]

I just bought a Hohner BRAVO thinking it would be a good move from my N series Settimio Soprani which is over 60 years old. The Hohner has a dissapointing tone by comparison, and what stirred my interest to this post, it has a slow response to Aflat in the upper octave when both MM reeds are employed but only on opening the bellows from closed. It's ok when compressing the bellows, ans it comes in on both reeds when you pull a little harder. It also does this a bit in the master coupler is used . Also using both reeds. I have returned the instrument to the supplier.

If you mean that you bought a *new* Hohner Bravo then this is not a surprise. The new lower-end Hohner accordions are rubbish, made in China. The reeds are rubbish and the Chinese workers have no idea what "voicing" means (adjusting the reeds for correct response) and the steel used in parts like springs is also rubbish... Only higher-end Hohners, made in Italy, are still good but all others are made in China.

 

[Dingo40]

"The new lower-end Hohner accordions are rubbish, made in China. The reeds are rubbish and the Chinese workers have no idea what "voicing" means (adjusting the reeds for correct response) and the steel used in parts like springs is also rubbish."
Well, at least they're doing a thorough job of it!

 

[dunlustin]

"Chinese workers have no idea...."
or maybe dealers in the West accept 'down to a price' while still increasing profit margins.
Nothing new: shops were happy to sell DDR 'rubbish' for decades. 50 years ago I bought a concertina that lasted less than 3 months.
More recently I bought a Taiwan-made scooter - great reviews from the m/cycle Press, compared favourably with a Kawasaki. It started to rot after 3 months, back tyre bald at <1000miles, brakes seized if not ridden for two weeks.
The dealer said I lived too close to the sea! ( He went bankrupt.) New dealer backed down when I found they were a wholly owned subsidiary and threatened them with head office.

 

[trevorhill349]

Mmmmm. Not very encouraging replies.

 

[boxplayer4000]

My understanding is that the process of making Hohner accordions in China is totally overseen by Germans. I would be surprised if it was otherwise.

 

[Scuromondo]

Mmmmm. Not very encouraging replies.

I have also found that these accordions have a “disappointing tone.” But, as you say, that is “in comparison”— to other instruments we have experience with. For many players the tone is apparently perfectly satisfying. And, given the relatively loose quality control these instruments supposedly undergo, perhaps those players were just lucky to have gotten one that was built a bit better (with tighter tolerances) than yours. …Or maybe your tastes are just a bit more sophisticated; many less exacting players may not even perceive the differences in response between opening and closing that you have noted, and even fewer may be troubled by it.

 

[boxplayer4000]

I recently converted a Panther to a C-System keyboard. The original reeds were replaced with monotonic Hohner ones and the result was satisfactory and very acceptable to the owner. Given the price of the instrument in the first place I found the quality quite acceptable; the response and air-tightness were excellent. I’m still trying the accept the velcro straps but they seem to work and are one small detail which helps people get up and running at a very reasonable price.

 

[debra]

I have also found that these accordions have a “disappointing tone.” But, as you say, that is “in comparison”— to other instruments we have experience with. ...

Actually the Hohner accordions made in China have disappointing tone compared to the exact same models from the period when they were still made in Germany. I have heard them side by side. The Chinese ones are rubbish. The bass lacks power and the accordions sound "thin" (for lack of a better word).

 

[Scuromondo]

Yes, several years ago I brought home a Hohner Amica and played it for a week and I found it just as you described—very “thin” and anemic. Mechanically, and in every other way, I had no complaints about it—especially given the price—but it had virtually no low-frequency response, and in general the sounds coming from it was very reedy with very little body.

 

[trevorhill349]

I have also found that these accordions have a “disappointing tone.” But, as you say, that is “in comparison”— to other instruments we have experience with. For many players the tone is apparently perfectly satisfying. And, given the relatively loose quality control these instruments supposedly undergo, perhaps those players were just lucky to have gotten one that was built a bit better (with tighter tolerances) than yours. …Or maybe your tastes are just a bit more sophisticated; many less exacting players may not even perceive the differences in response between opening and closing that you have noted, and even fewer may be troubled by it.

Hi Scuromondo. Thanks for that reply. That is encouraging. I find some truth, or at least agreement with what you say. Depending on the outcome of my returning the instrument to the supplier, I might upgrade to the AMICA if I get a refund, but still suspect that I might be disappointed, or I might just put the refund money into lessons. Does anyone have experience with the AMICA? I have decided thatif I don't get a refund, and I just have the instrument returned (hopefully repaired as best it can be), that it will be acceptable. I have come to realise that I am lucky to still be able to play and enjoy it and it's not worth getting out of shape over things when they could really be a lot worse.

 

[Scuromondo]

As far as I could determine, at the time I purchased my the Amica, it was essentially the same accordion as the Bravo but with a piccolo reed. In my opinion, if you were not pleased with the tonal quality of the Bravo, you are not likely to have a different experience with the Amica.

EDIT: I have noticed that, in the past few years, Hohner has changed the name of the Amica to “Amica Fotre.” I don’t know if this was done to address this perception that the tone of these accordions is weak and thin. Further, I don’t know whether Hohner just simply changed the name as a marketing strategy to declare that it has a powerful sound, or whether they truly redesigned the Amica to improve its tone.