Bass side - visual reference when learning?

[EuroFolker]

Sorry if this has been covered before.

Quite simply -

Should a beginner be glancing at the bass side to locate the marked buttons (visual aid for big jumps, such as E to F)

Or learn the locations solely by tactile reference, and muscle memory, from the very beginning.

Your opinions welcome.

 

[Dingo40]

Should a beginner be glancing at the bass side to locate the marked buttons (visual aid for big jumps, such as E to F)

I'd sit before my wife's dressing table mirror
with the music and a bass button chart in front of me, checking my finger placement in the mirror, until I got the hang of it.
Later it wasn't needed.

 

[JKJ]

As a beginner I sometimes put a mirror in a frame on a second music stand to the left. (I use a 2nd stand to more easily position the mirror.) I also keep a bass button chart in sight. I takes me some mental gymnastics to get the mirrored image, chart, and hands on the buttons to “play” well together. Seems to get easier with time. (I need a LOT more time!)

I position my left hand by feel and/or a glance in the mirror. I ran into an unanticipated challenge: in addition to navigating the accordion on-ramp I’m also getting back up to speed on my guitar finger picking after a few years of neglect. I’ve discovered that building new calluses on the left finger tips makes locating the dimpled C bass button by feel increasingly difficult! I’m considering modifying the button.

BTW, this is the button chart I’m using but I don’t like it much since the rows are not angled properly - I plan to make a new one some rainy day.



JKJ

 

[debra]

It should be pretty easy to locate the C with a dimple or other texture as it's more or less in the center (on the second row). Muscle memory should help enough to only be a few buttons off so when you feel around you can easily feel where it is. Then you go from there as you play. A visual reference (like using a mirror) should never be needed.

 

[Rosie C]

I'm also a beginner - I've bene learning to play by feel. I found sticking little bits of velcro on a couple of the buttons I use a lot (B fundamental) and Bm helped with jumping to them. I'm also not afraid to re-harmonise a song - e.g. an Em may do just as well as C major and can save a big jump.

 

[EuroFolker]

I'm also a beginner - I've bene learning to play by feel. I found sticking little bits of velcro on a couple of the buttons I use a lot (B fundamental) and Bm helped with jumping to them. I'm also not afraid to re-harmonise a song - e.g. an Em may do just as well as C major and can save a big jump.

In my case re-harmonizing is my biggest fear... lol

 

[Tom]

I used a mirror to begin with, don’t see it as a problem. I pretty much always transcribe every song I play so I constantly re-harmonize since I hardly ever find a sheet music I like to begin with. I simplify to get a song into rotation, but generally find the more chords sound better when I get it down. I change up the chords, however, when I play, either by volition or because I screwed up and need to get back somewhere, plus I constantly like to add ii, V, I turnarounds. You can do it!

 

[EuroFolker]

If "re-harmonizing" means transposing, that is different. I think I misunderstood RosieC's reply

 

[Rosie C]

If "re-harmonizing" means transposing, that is different. I think I misunderstood RosieC's reply

I meant that I might change a chord for a similar one if it sounds close enough, suits the tune and it's easier to reach the buttons.

e.g. C major is C+E+G whereas E minor is E+G+B so they share two notes and sometimes I can substitute one for the other. A minor might also work - being A+C+E. It's a bit of trial and error. I should probably point out at this point that I play jazz piano, and chords written on a piece are just a guideline!

Edited a bit to make it clearer!

 

[EuroFolker]

I meant that I might change a chord for a similar one if it sounds close enough, suits the tune and it's easier to reach the buttons.

e.g. C major is C+E+G whereas E minor is E+G+B so they share two notes and sometimes I can substitute one for the other. A minor might also work - being A+C+E. It's a bit of trial and error. I should probably point out at this point that I play jazz piano, and chords written on a piece are just a guideline!

Edited a bit to make it clearer!

Makes total sense, we're on the same page now

I suppose certain genres / tunes can tolerate chord substitutions better than the others.

Also, sometimes I find chord substitution beneficial - certain (exact same) chords just don't sound the same within the harmonic context, when I play them on my arranger keyboard vs. the acoustic guitar.

But in general, I find that chord substitution on the same instrument is detrimental to the original intent of the composer / arranger.

Maybe I'm just OCD? haha

When it comes to playing the accordion, it will be mostly Palmer & Hughes for me for quite a while so I won't need to substitute.

 

[Rosie C]

I'm doing Palmer & Hughes too! I've just started Book 2, though I still go back to "My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean" as I found the chord changes tricky - I tend to play in G major and D major, so having something in F stretches me a bit.

Much of the music I'm playing is for mandolin or melodeon. Given my current skill level I have to adapt it a bit to sound good enough for public performance.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Maybe I’m just different. I grew up at a time when the C button in Stradella layout was the only marked button and finding E and A-flat was done without feeling for the crosshatched textures.

I also never found the need to transpose anything, mostly because I never accompanied vocalists, but once in a while I’d transpose something for my own amusement. At any rate, we now have music notation software that can do transposition for us.

A former teacher of mine was also an arranger. He played a lot of jazz, and reharmonized a lot. He told me that the whole practice of chord substitution comes with a set of rules, and although he sometimes breaks those rules it’s only because he knows when and how to break them. I was not about to go that far, so I let the subject drop. If I had continued to take lessons from him, I’m sure we would have touched on the subject one day.

 

[Siegmund]

I would suggest not looking. You try to find the buttons by feel, and check if you've got the right one by sound. Anytime you know where one hand is at, play a note in the other hand that will give you the answer you need. Telling the difference between "3 rows" and "4 rows" can be tricky because they both share two notes (e.g. C major to A minor sharing C and E, vs. C major to E minor sharing E and G), but the difference between 4 rows and 5 should be obvious to your ear ("5 rows" offsets every note in the chord by a half step, doesn't repeat any common tone, and will sound very unnatural to a classical-minded ear.)

 

[JerryPH]

On a small accordion it may be possible to look but anything larger makes it impossible to see. The best thing to do is to learn without looking. Reference my last video that I posted that covers that basic technique… it applies even more to the left hand.

 

[davidplaysaccordion]

Everyone is different when it comes to learning but personally I’d say stick with feeling your way around. It takes longer and can be frustrating but it’s worth it in long run. After all you cannot read music if you are looking at your hands.

 

[Tor]

Another voice for the suggestion to learn where the note is and not look.  You can't look more than a quick glance on a large treble jump if you're reading music, so you might as well learn to not need it in the first place.

Put some time into exercises.  A little boring, I know, but they'll serve you well in the long run, and a few minutes every day at the beginning of practice will reap large dividends down the road.  As a bonus, you'll improve the first piece you play by warming up your fingers.

 

[davidplaysaccordion]

One thing I found that helped dexterity on the left hand was to play a simple scale up and down. C D E F etc on the bass notes. Even just figuring that out helped cement the bass side layout in my mind.

 

[JerryPH]

One thing I found that helped dexterity on the left hand was to play a simple scale up and down. C D E F etc on the bass notes. Even just figuring that out helped cement the bass side layout in my mind.

And once you learn one pattern (ie: the pattern for a single C-major scale), you know the patter for ALL major scales.

 

[davidplaysaccordion]

Then you add a walking bass, i, iV, V pattern on the right hand and you instantly know half the pop songs in the world!

 

[EuroFolker]

I never again looked since the advice in this thread, and it's (slowly) coming along.

In a year or two, the entire left side will hopefully be known territory.