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Bass side - visual reference when learning?

Any idea where I can buy a few of these stones? (and tje words to search with? Or know what dimensions are usually used?
Personally, I find a good, deep dimple best for orientation.
If you must have a crystal, you can buy them individually at shops that cater for the craft of "bead making".
Also, you may find something here:
 
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…I find a good, deep dimple best for orientation.

Do you suppose just making the dimple wider and deeper would work for me, with limited sensitivity in the left fingertips due to guitar string callouses?

I imagined a raised crystal might be easier to locate.

Maybe I can find an accordion locally to try before modify mine. Or I just thought of something - I could turn some dummy buttons from plastic rod and compare crystal to dimple.
 
I too have reduced finger tip sensitivity (for other reasons) and a wide (leaving about a millimeter rim all around the edge, made using a 3/8 inch drill bit), deepish dimple works better for me than crystal inserts which tend to reduce the impact of the dimple.
The good thing is, you can try out the dimple with or without the crystal, before fixing the crystal permanently.
The Swarovski beads are only a dollar or two each. 🙂
 
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Dimple is definitely easier to feel, but if you are able to feel the crystal, those look better. Choose what best fits your needs. :)
 
Dimple is definitely easier to feel, but if you are able to feel the crystal, those look better. Choose what best fits your needs. :)
Crystals are more something that you figure out by fingernail than finger tip.
 
I don’t play by fingernail… ever.
I wasn't talking about playing but orientation. If you are able to feel the button texture while hitting it, your sensitivity is in a different league than mine.
 
I wasn't talking about playing but orientation. If you are able to feel the button texture while hitting it, your sensitivity is in a different league than mine.
I cannot speak to anyone else about what they feel, but I can sincerely say that I never in my life had it cross my mind that there was a difference in feel between dimples and crystals until this thread. Some of my accordions have crystals and some have dimples and hash marks, I just accommodate the need and play them. :D

I did pull out the FR-8X this morning for a short practice session, then moved to the Scandalli and finished on the Gola, I knew what I was feeling, know the hash and dimple were of a greater texture, but found the crystal buttons with no more or less effort. Others can have different levels of sensitivity for sure.
 
For me if I want to jump from say F to say B the problem is being able to identify that I have landed on or nearly landed on E instead of B, and be able to slide across to B quickly
 
What helps me in going from F to B is to have my finger very close to the buttons -- I can then feel the dimple in E as I pass it and then know B is next.
 
Just joining this older discussion re basses. Speaking as an accordion teacher for decades, (even had mine own school years ago) - I agree with Davidplaysaccordion that practising the major scale is a great way to learn the position of the buttons - but both up and down of course.. and that may be a challenge for some.. in terms of patience? The following comments the experienced player will already know...

In reading over the threads, I didn't see any reference to that wonderfully creative original system of the bass keyboard with reference to the musical Circle of Fifths.... As we know, key of C major has no sharps or flats, one sharp - G major, 2 sharps - D major, 3 sharps - A major etc And going down below C, 1 flat - F major, 2 flats - B flat major, 3 flats - E flat major. etc. Further, the counter bass in each key is always the third in the scale, and the bass above the sixth etc. SideBar -- (Reminds me of the pioneer accordionist Pietro Frosini whose first Excelsiors were made with the bass section having individual notes - before the Stradella system was implemented widely-- and he played his chords using all three fingers!! )

And a further previous comment was that once the pattern was learned, it held in all major keys. Of course. For advanced players, learning the minor and chromatic scales both alone and together really makes one appreciate how more easily all compositions can be performed.
Also from what I've seen and heard over the years, the novice accordionist often wants to play songs almost from the first picking up of the instrument. I did too, but my second teacher - Al Viola - insisted on learning right and left hand scales first as "warm-ups". Still do that today in the rare times I pick it up.. And especially in the keys of the piece being learned.. Like athletes before a game.... fingers, hands, arms etc are muscles too!
Maybe unfair comment, but I often felt that the accordion is the easiest instrument to play poorly and the most difficult to play really well.
It may be of the only one which has a different keyboard for each hand, and it's virtually impossible to see one of them .. except with a mirror of course, but that also reverses the image... e.g., try using scissors in your left hand and cut a simple strip of paper using a mirror!!
I give a lot of credit to those who persevere. It's worth it!!

My accordion "Bible" in the early years was Deiro's Road to Velocity, then later Charlie Nunzio's Hanon Studies and Frank Gaviani's Modern Technique. Those 2 likely have almost every conceivable exercise for each and both hands. The last 2 I still have and use - not everything of course - but certain parts to warm up. Another excellent manual was Mastery of the Basses for the more advanced players..
I must add that most of my playing career was preparing for competitions or concerts. Competitions demanded you play exactly as written no matter how almost impossible, or accept the "wrath" of the adjudicators!! Very few of those, but they were there ---- I know!!
Incidentally, found a comment hidden in some music written by Charles Magnante when adjudicating at a Kiwanis Festival in Hamilton years ago. Typical Magnante - gracious and helpful in his commentary to encourage the performers!!

And I can't help but make a comment regarding another thread re the sequence of bass reeds. I may err but I believe that at least one set of bass reeds is in a different order in order that, when playing left hand scales in the different keys, one can hear the scale as 'normal' from top to bottom.
Otherwise if all reeds were in identical order in the blocks, there would be a 'jump' from a middle note back down to the lower one... to simplify the concept.. This may generate some reaction, but that's what forums are all about, as I've been informed.

Hope above is of some interest, if not I'll back off on this topic for now....
 
And I can't help but make a comment regarding another thread re the sequence of bass reeds. I may err but I believe that at least one set of bass reeds is in a different order in order that, when playing left hand scales in the different keys, one can hear the scale as 'normal' from top to bottom.
Otherwise if all reeds were in identical order in the blocks, there would be a 'jump' from a middle note back down to the lower one... to simplify the concept.. This may generate some reaction, but that's what forums are all about, as I've been informed.
The part where you are mistaken is the hidden assumption that accordion basses work all in the same way. There is a paper about standard bass use for composers that reads like it makes the same assumption.

In reality, even different models from the same manufacturer differ in their bass layout.

A Hohner Morino with 5-reed bass has reed banks starting at E1, E2, E3, E4, E5. An Excelsior I have has reed banks starting at A1, A2, F♯3, C4, C5. This Excelsior (and a number of other Italian instruments) will have several different octave breaks across the reed banks that help in masking the octave break at least in Master. The Germans (Hohner and Weltmeister) are more likely than the Italians to have reed banks with the octave break matching across the octaves. Converters (and instruments offering additional free bass) are unlikely to work with overlapping octave breaks.

I have an instrument designed by Morino for a soloist who was so obsessed about octave breaks that one can put the Stradella bass chord octave break in 20 different places in the reed range available due to the free bass. I have copies of papers said soloist wrote about octave breaks. It is interesting that Morino facilitated this soloist (which he built instruments for even before starting at Hohner) on the one hand, on the other hand made his default instruments have the same octave break in every reed bank in difference to Italian practice.

"Standard bass" isn't all that standardized. In a time where many symphonic instruments are very rigidly defined, this is refreshing.
 
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In reading over the threads, I didn't see any reference to that wonderfully creative original system of the bass keyboard with reference to the musical Circle of Fifths ... Further, the counter bass in each key is always the third in the scale, and the bass above the sixth etc.

Much of the music I play is 1-4-5 tunes so the Stradella is great - whether that's folk music or 1950s-60s rock & roll tunes that a friend's cover band have me help out with. I mostly play in G, D or A as well, so I expect in years to come my accordion will have 10 worn out bass buttons, with the rest of the Stradella immaculate!

I only discovered the counter row recently. One of the songs this band does is "Hound Dog", the bass line for which fits beautifully on the root and counter rows. It's come in useful lately as I've added a 48-bass to my collection, and I'm learning to drop onto the counter button on the G column to pick up a B.

That said, I've played double bass for years, so I'm very familiar with the circle of fifths and my eyes kind of lit up when I first read about how the Stradella board works.
 
Just joining this older discussion re basses. Speaking as an accordion teacher for decades, (even had mine own school years ago) - I agree with Davidplaysaccordion that practising the major scale is a great way to learn the position of the buttons - but both up and down of course.. and that may be a challenge for some.. in terms of patience? The following comments the experienced player will already know...

In reading over the threads, I didn't see any reference to that wonderfully creative original system of the bass keyboard with reference to the musical Circle of Fifths.... As we know, key of C major has no sharps or flats, one sharp - G major, 2 sharps - D major, 3 sharps - A major etc And going down below C, 1 flat - F major, 2 flats - B flat major, 3 flats - E flat major. etc. Further, the counter bass in each key is always the third in the scale, and the bass above the sixth etc. SideBar -- (Reminds me of the pioneer accordionist Pietro Frosini whose first Excelsiors were made with the bass section having individual notes - before the Stradella system was implemented widely-- and he played his chords using all three fingers!! )

And a further previous comment was that once the pattern was learned, it held in all major keys. Of course. For advanced players, learning the minor and chromatic scales both alone and together really makes one appreciate how more easily all compositions can be performed.
Also from what I've seen and heard over the years, the novice accordionist often wants to play songs almost from the first picking up of the instrument. I did too, but my second teacher - Al Viola - insisted on learning right and left hand scales first as "warm-ups". Still do that today in the rare times I pick it up.. And especially in the keys of the piece being learned.. Like athletes before a game.... fingers, hands, arms etc are muscles too!
Maybe unfair comment, but I often felt that the accordion is the easiest instrument to play poorly and the most difficult to play really well.
It may be of the only one which has a different keyboard for each hand, and it's virtually impossible to see one of them .. except with a mirror of course, but that also reverses the image... e.g., try using scissors in your left hand and cut a simple strip of paper using a mirror!!
I give a lot of credit to those who persevere. It's worth it!!

My accordion "Bible" in the early years was Deiro's Road to Velocity, then later Charlie Nunzio's Hanon Studies and Frank Gaviani's Modern Technique. Those 2 likely have almost every conceivable exercise for each and both hands. The last 2 I still have and use - not everything of course - but certain parts to warm up. Another excellent manual was Mastery of the Basses for the more advanced players..
I must add that most of my playing career was preparing for competitions or concerts. Competitions demanded you play exactly as written no matter how almost impossible, or accept the "wrath" of the adjudicators!! Very few of those, but they were there ---- I know!!
Incidentally, found a comment hidden in some music written by Charles Magnante when adjudicating at a Kiwanis Festival in Hamilton years ago. Typical Magnante - gracious and helpful in his commentary to encourage the performers!!

And I can't help but make a comment regarding another thread re the sequence of bass reeds. I may err but I believe that at least one set of bass reeds is in a different order in order that, when playing left hand scales in the different keys, one can hear the scale as 'normal' from top to bottom.
Otherwise if all reeds were in identical order in the blocks, there would be a 'jump' from a middle note back down to the lower one... to simplify the concept.. This may generate some reaction, but that's what forums are all about, as I've been informed.

Hope above is of some interest, if not I'll back off on this topic for now....
Thanks Riccardo! I really enjoy reading of your experiences so please don’t “back off”!

We’ve had a lot of discussions here about playing scales and other exercises, and most of us agree with you about their utility. But many of us, myself included, have not (yet) put this into practice.
 
The part where you are mistaken is the hidden assumption that accordion basses work all in the same way. There is a paper about standard bass use for composers that reads like it makes the same assumption.

In reality, even different models from the same manufacturer differ in their bass layout.

A Hohner Morino with 5-reed bass has reed banks starting at E1, E2, E3, E4, E5. An Excelsior I have has reed banks starting at A1, A2, F♯3, C4, C5. This Excelsior (and a number of other Italian instruments) will have several different octave breaks across the reed banks that help in masking the octave break at least in Master. The Germans (Hohner and Weltmeister) are more likely than the Italians to have reed banks with the octave break matching across the octaves. Converters (and instruments offering additional free bass) are unlikely to work with overlapping octave breaks.

I have an instrument designed by Morino for a soloist who was so obsessed about octave breaks that one can put the Stradella bass chord octave break in 20 different places in the reed range available due to the free bass. I have copies of papers said soloist wrote about octave breaks. It is interesting that Morino facilitated this soloist (which he built instruments for even before starting at Hohner) on the one hand, on the other hand made his default instruments have the same octave break in every reed bank in difference to Italian practice.

"Standard bass" isn't all that standardized. In a time where many symphonic instruments are very rigidly defined, this is refreshing.
I have no hidden assumptions and I'm aware that accordion basses do not all work the same way. All I try to do is be helpful, especially to the "newbies" and not be critical, based on my earlier experiences. Will continue to do so.
 
Much of the music I play is 1-4-5 tunes so the Stradella is great - whether that's folk music or 1950s-60s rock & roll tunes that a friend's cover band have me help out with. I mostly play in G, D or A as well, so I expect in years to come my accordion will have 10 worn out bass buttons, with the rest of the Stradella immaculate!

I only discovered the counter row recently. One of the songs this band does is "Hound Dog", the bass line for which fits beautifully on the root and counter rows. It's come in useful lately as I've added a 48-bass to my collection, and I'm learning to drop onto the counter button on the G column to pick up a B.

That said, I've played double bass for years, so I'm very familiar with the circle of fifths and my eyes kind of lit up when I first read about how the Stradella board works.
Thanks Rosie... Just to add to the counter bass comment, some years back, I came across an obviously specially made accordion with a second counter bass row with E flat in front of the E bass -- then B flat, F etc going up!.. The player explained that he played much of his music in minor keys and was able to use the "double counter" when alternating with e.g., G and D basses. Same distance to reach the minor chord as in the major, and did not have to reach the e flat bass with his 4th or 5th finger. Only saw one of these.. Forgotten the brand...
And further to add to some info re basses, I have a 140 bass Excelsior with an added row of augmented chords behind the diminished chord row!! Not to complicate the bass section, but an interesting concept for experimenters and others...
 
I came across an obviously specially made accordion with a second counter bass row with E flat in front of the E bass -- then B flat, F etc going up!.
I have such a 140 bass Giulietti 41/140 PA.
The extra counterbass row consists of minor thirds in the relevant key.
I was told this arrangement is used for playing music of the Balkans.
I didn't buy the instrument for that particular reason, but simply because I liked the sound of it.🙂
 
Thank you. Likely was not the same one but it seems there were several made for that reason.. Have worked on Giuletti's and found them of excellent quality. However most were hi-end level owned by professionals who needed the best - or be out of work!
 
For short distances, mostly just use touch. You might want to use a mirror in your first week to learn what your fingers are doing - to help learn the correspondence between the 6 directions you feel with your fingers and the 6 directions on the keyboard.
I occasionally use a mirror to get started when I'm learning a longer leap than I know how to do.
A tablet with a camera works well as a virtual mirror - no lighting problems, easier to position, bigger image.
 
I never again looked since the advice in this thread, and it's (slowly) coming along.
In a year or two, the entire left side will hopefully be known territory.

It might help to look at it this way. Start off by learning simple tunes in C major, so that you will be playing close to the easiest to find note C. Explore the C bass with the F and G buttons and the chords below each bass note and all together they provide a nice limited focus for the LH. A goal could be to try and accomplish this much in week 1 by practicing 15-30 minutes each day. You might surprise yourself by making progress faster than you expect.

When comfortable with this small group of buttons and you want to expand your range, move one button to the left (F) or to the right (G) until you’ve expanded the area you are happy to find your way around just feeling for the next button rather than trying to jump and get lost. The jumps can come later when you know your way around a larger number of buttons that reduce your chances for getting lost.
 
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