Reed choices

[Elizabeth]

Why would one choose three middle reeds over two middles and a high? Is a three middle reed box more popular these days? Does it have to do with what kind of music went first to play? Can you generally say three middles are more for folk music, and two middles and a high are more for classical and jazz? More musette can be had with three middles, is that correct?

 

[Dingo40]

Why would one choose three middle reeds over two middles and a high? I

It's usually two middle and a LOW!
I have accordions with: LM; LMM, LMH; LMMM and LMMMH treble reeds and I love them all!
I'd love to have more, but these are already enough to keep me adequately occupied .

 

[Tom]

Why would one choose three middle reeds over two middles and a high? Is a three middle reed box more popular these days? Does it have to do with what kind of music went first to play? Can you generally say three middles are more for folk music, and two middles and a high are more for classical and jazz? More musette can be had with three middles, is that correct?

I think someone would choose the 3 middle over the middles plus high because they did not like the sound of the high reed and/or they wanted the ability to do 3 reed “French” musette.

 

[Rosie C]

I think someone would choose the 3 middle over the middles plus high because they did not like the sound of the high reed and/or they wanted the ability to do 3 reed “French” musette.

That's me! My 'big' accordion is LMMM because what I love most about accordions is the musette sound - and I wanted a 'proper' musette.

 

[Ventura]

just from a gigging perspective, where your jobs are
all over the map..

how many gig worthy accordions can a starving artist afford ?
so an Italian wedding one day and a French Cafe the next,
'then Oktoberfest and a Jazz club on Saturday night and
Chicago Polka's for the Polish Club Picnic

well at minimum i need 2 accordions for this, to have reasonably
authentic sound to use in each genre, which is a reasonable investment

one would be LMMH tuned very gently MM and the other
LMMM with tuning that allowed me to choose between 4 strong
musette combinations and sound good on all the Continental gigs

though i prefer to have more than 2 gig worthy accordions, as i really
like an M- M M+ that is still rather gentle

in Pittsburgh, way back when, every European ethnic group
of immigrants more or less took over some nearby suburb
of the sprawling city as the miracle miles wound their way
up one river and down along another.. each area having it's
community heart in the magnificent Catholic Churches
that were raised into the smoky skies.. for a boy like me
playing Gigs from the time i was 14 and being a hired gun
for countless pick-up bands in these communities, i got to
be a part of endless Summers of sprawling ethnic festivals
in those Church Community Halls and Parking Lots.. i HAD
to learn their most loved songs and i HAD to sound right
for them.. that was both a privilege and a duty.. that was why
i was swapping reedblocks in my Cordovox..

i know a lot of old-time Box men had a similar experience
and need for authenticity in their cities and towns..
so from this perspective, the choice is based on wanting to
give the devil his due and faithfully playing the music not
just the right notes, but the right sound..

Some may recall my mention of converting an old 3 reed
Giulietti into an MMM box for strolling.. compared to my
Gola and Excelsiors it is a pitiful little thing but sweet and
useful for outdoor cafe and rooftop gigs.. one Summer
Jacque brought his Mediterranee food and staff to
a townwide festival weekend in Arlington near the restaurant,
and so i brought the little cream G to stroll outdoors in support..
Virginie (a wonderful, gentle girl) shyly pulled my shirtsleeve
after i had played her favorite Sylve Berte song and said the
sound of this accordion was exactly perfect and it carried her
back to her youth in France, and of all the accordions i had
brought to the club over the years she declared it to be her
favourite (and so i had to from then on take 2 accordions to
every Gig at the Mediterrannee)

eventually, the Roland FR7 gave us the ability to select the correct
Musette for every gig in an easy and authentic way, and for that
alone it was worth the price to a gigging musician

 

[Elizabeth]

Yes when i was writing that, i simply left out the low…
Thank you!!

 

[Elizabeth]

Th

That's me! My 'big' accordion is LMMM because what I love most about accordions is the musette sound - and I wanted a 'proper' musette.

Thank you, rosie!

 

[Elizabeth]

just from a gigging perspective, where your jobs are
all over the map..

how many gig worthy accordions can a starving artist afford ?
so an Italian wedding one day and a French Cafe the next,
'then Oktoberfest and a Jazz club on Saturday night and
Chicago Polka's for the Polish Club Picnic

well at minimum i need 2 accordions for this, to have reasonably
authentic sound to use in each genre, which is a reasonable investment

one would be LMMH tuned very gently MM and the other
LMMM with tuning that allowed me to choose between 4 strong
musette combinations and sound good on all the Continental gigs

though i prefer to have more than 2 gig worthy accordions, as i really
like an M- M M+ that is still rather gentle

in Pittsburgh, way back when, every European ethnic group
of immigrants more or less took over some nearby suburb
of the sprawling city as the miracle miles wound their way
up one river and down along another.. each area having it's
community heart in the magnificent Catholic Churches
that were raised into the smoky skies.. for a boy like me
playing Gigs from the time i was 14 and being a hired gun
for countless pick-up bands in these communities, i got to
be a part of endless Summers of sprawling ethnic festivals
in those Church Community Halls and Parking Lots.. i HAD
to learn their most loved songs and i HAD to sound right
for them.. that was both a privilege and a duty.. that was why
i was swapping reedblocks in my Cordovox..

i know a lot of old-time Box men had a similar experience
and need for authenticity in their cities and towns..
so from this perspective, the choice is based on wanting to
give the devil his due and faithfully playing the music not
just the right notes, but the right sound..

Some may recall my mention of converting an old 3 reed
Giulietti into an MMM box for strolling.. compared to my
Gola and Excelsiors it is a pitiful little thing but sweet and
useful for outdoor cafe and rooftop gigs.. one Summer
Jacque brought his Mediterranee food and staff to
a townwide festival weekend in Arlington near the restaurant,
and so i brought the little cream G to stroll outdoors in support..
Virginie (a wonderful, gentle girl) shyly pulled my shirtsleeve
after i had played her favorite Sylve Berte song and said the
sound of this accordion was exactly perfect and it carried her
back to her youth in France, and of all the accordions i had
brought to the club over the years she declared it to be her
favourite (and so i had to from then on take 2 accordions to
every Gig at the Mediterrannee)

eventually, the Roland FR7 gave us the ability to select the correct
Musette for every gig in an easy and authentic way, and for that
alone it was worth the price to a gigging musician

 

[Elizabeth]

wow thanks Ventura, a great story..

 

[Siegmund]

I am sure the biggest reason is the appeal of the musette sound (and being able to choose different strengths of tremolo by choosing whether to use MM-, MM+, M-M+, or all three.)

One additional reason may come into play if you play with other musicians especially in a more precise or classical style: if they tune to match your M reed, your MM+ combo will be sharper and no longer be in tune with the other instruments. (And if they tune to match the middle of your MM+ sound, your dry-tuned reeds will now be flatter than the other instruments.) If however, you have M- and M+ in approximately equal and opposite directions away from M, you can use M-M+ or M-MM+ with the other instruments, and be in tune both when playing dry and when playing with tremolo.

 

[Elizabeth]

Technical stuff i never thought of! Thanks so much.

 

[debra]

Accordions with LMMM used to be quite popular here, but for a few decades already the LMMH setup has become dominant. I still have my late sister's Crucianelli Super Video (LMMM) from around 1970, completely overhauled, tuned, etc., so good as new still with the original Bugari reeds inside... and have been trying to find a buyer for it (who is a player, not a dealer) for a reasonable price and for the past five months and there have been no takers. People just don't seem to want LMMM any more, at least not around here (in the Netherlands or Belgium).

 

[Elizabeth]

Accordions with LMMM used to be quite popular here, but for a few decades already the LMMH setup has become dominant. I still have my late sister's Crucianelli Super Video (LMMM) from around 1970, completely overhauled, tuned, etc., so good as new still with the original Bugari reeds inside... and have been trying to find a buyer for it (who is a player, not a dealer) for a reasonable price and for the past five months and there have been no takers. People just don't seem to want LMMM any more, at least not around here (in the Netherlands or Belgium).

 

[Elizabeth]

Oh thank you paul, thats intetesting,i wonder why three middles has become less dominant. Had been wondering if lmmh boxes were becoming a thing of the past

 

[debra]

Oh thank you paul, thats intetesting,i wonder why three middles has become less dominant. Had been wondering if lmmh boxes were becoming a thing of the past

Well, we have two communities in the accordion world. One community sees the accordion as an instrument for entertaining people with popular music, and there a nice MMM musette sound is pretty much the favorite. The other community sees the accordion as a very versatile instrument used for everything from baroque to contemporary music and prefers LMMH (and possibly with cassotto) to give more choices between sounds, from full organ LMH to something like musette with MMH and everything in between. Around here the tendency is more and more for the accordion as the versatile instrument, taught in music schools alongside strings, piano, woodwind, brass, etc. and that's why LMMH has taken over. Of course for the young and strong there is always LMMMH...

 

[Ignacchitti]

[...] and two middles and a high are more for classical and jazz?

As you asked this and specifically mentioned jazz, I would just add that for jazz it doesn't really matter much, as long as the accordion has a good bassoon (L) in cassotto.
95% of the time jazz players use just the bassoon reed.
Once in a while the combination of L and M is used (tuned dry). Using any other combination of reeds is even rarer. LM was a bit more common in old time jazz up to the 1940s or early 1950s.
It's said nowadays that the ideal jazz accordion is LLMM (all tuned dry), but maybe that is more of a marketing strategy, a jazz player does not need all those reeds.

 

[Ventura]

and a subset of us use the chambered M as the preferred reed,
and a smaller subset preferred further, because in older times it was
much easier to get a LMMH accordion, both M reeds tuned in
unison (zero musette) and an ever smaller subset of us went GaGa
for an Excelsior LMMMH with all 3 M reedsets tuned in unison

since it is virtually impossible to tune or make 3 identical reeds
sounding together to be exactly at the same pitch and flexing
in perfect synchronicity, the resulting sound is simply decsribed
as clean yet wonderfully rich and complex,

 

[Elizabeth]

Well, we have two communities in the accordion world. One community sees the accordion as an instrument for entertaining people with popular music, and there a nice MMM musette sound is pretty much the favorite. The other community sees the accordion as a very versatile instrument used for everything from baroque to contemporary music and prefers LMMH (and possibly with cassotto) to give more choices between sounds, from full organ LMH to something like musette with MMH and everything in between. Around here the tendency is more and more for the accordion as the versatile instrument, taught in music schools alongside strings, piano, woodwind, brass, etc. and that's why LMMH has taken over. Of course for the young and strong there is always LMMMH...

Interesting insight you offer, as usual. Always appreciate getting educated. I was looking forward to gettting to know my new lmmh 21lb 96 bass; however in the interim, it appears that it maybe too big for me to manage. i found am appealing 17lb smaller box with same tuning. But how many accordions can one justify having.

 

[Elizabeth]

As you asked this and specifically mentioned jazz, I would just add that for jazz it doesn't really matter much, as long as the accordion has a good bassoon (L) in cassotto.
95% of the time jazz players use just the bassoon reed.
Once in a while the combination of L and M is used (tuned dry). Using any other combination of reeds is even rarer. LM was a bit more common in old time jazz up to the 1940s or early 1950s.
It's said nowadays that the ideal jazz accordion is LLMM (all tuned dry), but maybe that is more of a marketing strategy, a jazz player does not need all those reeds.

Thank you tor your addition to the cnversation! Always apprecate leaning more, and i hardly knew a thing about jazz accordions.

 

[debra]

... But how many accordions can one justify having.

I have stopped worrying about this issue. I have 5 accordions (4 regular plus 1 bass accordion) that I use regularly for making "virtual ensemble" recordings so the recordings are my justification for keeping them all. But then I have three more that were either gifted to me or inherited by me and are rarely used and are mostly just taking up space... It's best not to count them, so when people ask me how many accordions I have I just say 5.