Petosa Americana

[Tommaso B]

Am vaguely considering an Americana, being sold these days by Petosa, Lynnwood, WA. I've seen and heard them on the Petosa website, and wonder about the claims that these are price-conscious models but built with the same emphasis on quality construction etc as the more expensive Petosa piano accordions. I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who has bought one, or has hands-on experience with them.

 

[Ventura]

sorry, that is not how it works

i am not a fan of Petosa, but give the devil his due, they have
NEVER contracted for stock accordions from ANYONE.

Petosa has design and engineering exclusive's under CONTRACT just as
Deffner had. It is absolute fiction that you can get the same
accordion under the Bugari or any other label as under the Petosa label.

a shred of disinformation lightly tossed on the internet can have
long term repercussions.. sorry, but that was an unfounded assumption
and i am sure not realized in the moment..

you CAN get an instrumnt from Bugari of equal or even better quality,
no doubt, and that is probably what you really meant,
but it will significantly NOT be the same as a Petosa model, rest assured.

 

[OuijaBoard]

Am vaguely considering an Americana, being sold these days by Petosa, Lynnwood, WA. I've seen and heard them on the Petosa website, and wonder about the claims that these are price-conscious models but built with the same emphasis on quality construction etc as the more expensive Petosa piano accordions. I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who has bought one, or has hands-on experience with them.

I have not purchased or tried an Americana, but have eyed the smaller ones. While it's accepted here until further notice that the "Petosa" marque accordions are produced by Bugari/Zero Sette, it's unconfirmed whether that is so of the Americanas. Their contract for those could be with another Italian house, who knows. They list TAM reeds and perhaps are priced a tad below some nice, solid regular Italian accordions not in the cassotto/a mano premium spec class. One would hope a decision was made to offer Italian accordions of at least equivalent quality to those in this spec class by other Italian makers, as there is certainly a market there that the more luxe Petosa line can't capture. Way in the past they had an "SM-" prefix "Student" line that really was more plasticky flimsier materials, but Americana one would hope is about equivalent in quality to other non-luxe Italian stuff.

A couple of the Americana listings have a photo or two of pans/internals when you click on the item for more detail. I don't see anything wildly different from the internal photos of the Bugari ordinary 34/72 LMM strollers viewable at Carnegie, but I'm no expert.

P 34 (34/72 LMM)

Details The AMERICANA P 34 is setting a new standard for both quality and value. Designed and produced by petosa with the same attention to detail & craftsmanship, the new P 34 is a high-quality accordion designed for the advanced level artist at an affordable price. Try all other Italian...

petosa.com

For a rough idea of comps . . . Where they're pricing a stroller 34/72 LMM with TAM (so-called Voci Armoniche Rifinitura tipo a mano) at $3695.00, the Carnegie shop in PA "was" pricing Bugari marque ordinary stroller 34/72 LMMs with TAM at $4K. But seem to have raised that just recently to $4295. Whether Petosa's next Americana batch will have increased price tags, unknown.

 

[debra]

The add says that the Americana is "designed and produced by Petosa". Now, as far as I know Petosa does not produce anything but gets accordion manufacturers (Zero Sette for the accordions labeled Petosa) to do the production for them.
I generally do not like companies that make false statements in their product descriptions, no matter how good their products are... (For the same reason I never liked Hohner as a company, despite them selling good accordions.)

 

[Ventura]

and on top of that, knowing how they model their business marketing after Steinway,
is it at all reasonable to just assume this lower priced line, "Americana", is produced in the same factory ?

it could be like the Steinway BOSTON piano line, created so they could compete
against the companies selling "off" Steinway with a lower priced but "just as good maybe"
line, that are made in the Kawai factory in Japan, or the ESSEX line, also owned and marketed by Steinway,
but sourced somewhere in indochina (i think)

regardless, Petosa finishes every Petosa labeled accordion in their shop,
they are very hands on, specifically the action is a focus of their in house
finishing. As you all have been debating, the blue star elixer is another point
of "difference" the true believers seem to be drinking..

but there are exclusives in the materials and shaping of the tone chambers in particular
reed blocks and some other specs that came from their own R&D once upon a time.
Whether they still have any actual R&D currently is an unknown, but how
much is there left to develop going forward ? The industry has already
forgotton and discarded more than they can ever reclaim..

the petosa brand could not survive at their top tier price point if they did
not have actually different and exclusive products for sale, as the value added
"perception" they rely upon building in a customer to induce them to spend
quite a bit more for a Petosa than anything else on the market would have
no foundation, and therefore evaporate their market share.

being long-term successful in the stratosphere of retail is their primary skill,
and they have a lot of happy, loyal, even repeat customers supporting them.

 

[Tom]

The add says that the Americana is "designed and produced by Petosa". Now, as far as I know Petosa does not produce anything but gets accordion manufacturers (Zero Sette for the accordions labeled Petosa) to do the production for them.
I generally do not like companies that make false statements in their product descriptions, no matter how good their products are... (For the same reason I never liked Hohner as a company, despite them selling good accordions.)

While I respect your opinions, skills and knowledge, Paul, I think there is a semantic issue here. At least in US English, “produced” does not = “manufactured.” For example, someone who “produces” a band (or movie, or whatever) does not sing or play the music. The “producer” is instrumental (pun intended) in getting the thing made, and selling it, regardless of the actual maker, actors, musicians, etc.

Now, would a company intentionally use their ad copy to mislead the consumer about the details of product manufacturer? Yeah, pretty much all the time. Really, it’s a jungle out there, buyer beware!

 

[debra]

While I respect your opinions, skills and knowledge, Paul, I think there is a semantic issue here. At least in US English, “produced” does not = “manufactured.” For example, someone who “produces” a band (or movie, or whatever) does not sing or play the music. The “producer” is instrumental (pun intended) in getting the thing made, and selling it, regardless of the actual maker, actors, musicians, etc.

Now, would a company intentionally use their ad copy to mislead the consumer about the details of product manufacturer? Yeah, pretty much all the time. Really, it’s a jungle out there, buyer beware!

You have a point, but for me, when we are dealing with physical objects, be it food products or other material things (like cars, furniture, and musical instruments), for me "produced", "made" "assembled" or "manufactured" all have the same meaning.
More to the point is your comment "It's a jungle out there, buyer beware!". Sadly this applies to all accordions you see advertised, whether new or used. Apart from brand owners lying about where their instruments are made there are also a lot of fakes (counterfeit/imitation) accordions out there.

 

[dak]

You have a point, but for me, when we are dealing with physical objects, be it food products or other material things (like cars, furniture, and musical instruments), for me "produced", "made" "assembled" or "manufactured" all have the same meaning.

I prefer my apples to be produced in the Netherlands (say) rather than assembled or manufactured there.

 

[OuijaBoard]

I've purchased three used accordions from them across a decade-ish. Small MM and LMM stuff. Each described "Mint" or "As New," and each time condition was as represented. I've been gazing at the 30/72 MM Americana PA with TAM. Easy to get 30 treble notes in a small CBA, but 30 treble PA in 2-voice MM is a super-useful light config that is scarce in Eyetalian. Love my 30/50 Titano Titan LM (that one used years ago, not from Petosa).

A poster on Reddit mentioned an upcoming new small Americana CBA LM converter called the Nemo. That person was told about it by them in discussion about what he was looking for, and he got one by order before any were in stock at the store. I see a B system Americana "Nemo" has landed.

 

[Walker]

Well @Tommaso B I don't know anything about the Americana brand, but I do believe Petosa has a lot of pride in whatever they put their name to.

It's great to see that you are considering buying a new accordion. Wishing you all the best in your musical adventures. As the old accordionists saying goes "squeeze the day".

 

[micahcowan]

I've been in the starts of talks recently with Petosa about a potential super bayan in C griff. During a conversation, they mentioned that their bass mechanics for converters are hand-made, by people paid hourly instead of per-mechanism, but mentioned that it could be an option to use bass mechanics that are more typical to what "most other manufacturers today" are doing, which were characterized as, if they break down, there's no real repair option other than to wholly replace (implying, but not stating (I didn't ask) that this isn't the case with the high-standard bass mechanics they would normally include. I was told that this option would not be available as a "Petosa" instrument, but that they would sell it to me as an "Americana" instrument.

This gives me the strong impression that Petosa and Americana instruments are manufactured at the same facility, and that they use the Petosa brand exclusively for instruments for which they did not have to compromise in any way from their most strictly ideal instrument - instruments to which they are "proud to affix their name", using the Americana branding for anything less.

Of course, this doesn't actually preclude them from using other manufacturing facilities for some subset of Americana instruments. Presumably even if they never do so now, but later bought another manufacturing facility, they would market all products built there as Americana (or perhaps some other non-"Petosa" brand), right alongside those other Americanas they may make themselves.

(Please do note that I'm not speaking from any actual knowledge of anything, only the impressions I have from a single conversation.)

 

[Thomas N]

I've stated this here previously, but it never hurts to mention it again in another thread years later.

Support from Petosa is World-Class. Joe Petosa is an upstanding person and always answers the phone and emails promptly. I bought my first-ever reedless accordion from them oh, probably 25 years ago now. The Petosa Millennium. It worked fantastically and I sold it for the same amount I paid for it after using it for a couple years. To a player in Kansas, I believe.

I would have no hesitation in buying anything from Petosa and would be secure in knowing they stand behind anything they sell 100%. It would be unlikely anybody here that has purchased from them would say otherwise.

My main consideration with Petosa is the value you are getting. How much of a premium is worth it to own a Petosa - especially if there are other brands of accordions that have as good of a build quality, sound incredible and are thousands of dollars less?

I haven't been in-person to their shop and there's a reason for that. I'm certain I'd walk out $12K poorer with a really nice accordion!

 

[Ventura]

the modern accordion factory is much smaller today than
in the past, space is at a premium, and the manufacturing
methods in place at a given facility are logically set-up
to be efficient and in constant use

in other words, you don't clear a 100 meter workbench this week
to build something else then clear it off next week and set up
your tooling and machines for the other thing once again

they don't have the luxury of space or time.. so if they make
bass mechanism's a certain way in the Bugari/07 assembly
process, you likely take it or leave it when you place an order

this isn't like special striping on a run of bellows for 40 full size boxes

to me your report suggests strongly that the Americana line is sourced
in a lower level factory, and is in no way to be associated with the quality
level assumed in literally anything regardless of brand name coming from
a top tier facility like Bugari/07

it also suggests that Petosa will intentionally obfuscate that distinction,
and in no way will reveal the true pedigree of these Americana models
to the world

the real problem as i see it, one of perception and value recieved,
which lies in the simple fact that, even if you overpay by 300% for a
Steinway class product, you still get your moneys worth because
the instrument will be brilliant, never fail you, and hold it's value.

however, If you pay a Steinway Profit margin for a mediocre instrument,
you merely sent someone on a nice 2 week Vacation in the Bahama's
as a gift, and recieved a mediocre product in return, so you actually
get an unacceptable level of risk at a premium price

 

[CC_PDX]

I have dealt with Petosa multiple times for tuneups, trade-ins, purchases. I have always been impressed with their integrity and forthrightness. When I was in the shop I played on some of the Americana instruments and found them to be nice sounding, well built and responsive. They are not selling them as Petosas, so it doesn't seem like misdirection just like everyone understands a Scion is not a Toyota which is not a Lexus. They have been "value-engineered" to come in at a more affordable price point, so you can read into that what cost-cutting entails and whether they matter to you...simpler finishes, less fancy reeds, less costly materials used, less time spent setting it up, etc. It could still be a compelling option for many people to have a professional level box and they would be a nice upgrade from many boxes.

Even so, I think I would personally be more inclined to seek out a comparably-priced used Petosa, much like I would prefer a well-cared-for used Steinway to a new Boston grand.

 

[Tommaso B]

I've been in the starts of talks recently with Petosa about a potential super bayan in C griff. During a conversation, they mentioned that their bass mechanics for converters are hand-made, by people paid hourly instead of per-mechanism, but mentioned that it could be an option to use bass mechanics that are more typical to what "most other manufacturers today" are doing, which were characterized as, if they break down, there's no real repair option other than to wholly replace (implying, but not stating (I didn't ask) that this isn't the case with the high-standard bass mechanics they would normally include. I was told that this option would not be available as a "Petosa" instrument, but that they would sell it to me as an "Americana" instrument.

This gives me the strong impression that Petosa and Americana instruments are manufactured at the same facility, and that they use the Petosa brand exclusively for instruments for which they did not have to compromise in any way from their most strictly ideal instrument - instruments to which they are "proud to affix their name", using the Americana branding for anything less.

Of course, this doesn't actually preclude them from using other manufacturing facilities for some subset of Americana instruments. Presumably even if they never do so now, but later bought another manufacturing facility, they would market all products built there as Americana (or perhaps some other non-"Petosa" brand), right alongside those other Americanas they may make themselves.

(Please do note that I'm not speaking from any actual knowledge of anything, only the impressions I have from a single conversation.)

I've seen the front of the Americana....it sez under 'AMERICANA": "prodotto di Petosa" i.e., "product of Petosa"

 

[LibraryJoe]

I bought a new Americana PA about two years ago, and was perfectly happy with it, but about 6 or 7 months after that saw a used Petosa Artista with the reeds and register switches that really excited me. (Plus, it was a beauty to look at) I paid another grand for the Artista—a used professional accordion with a used carrying case, but brand new straps. Joey Petosa credited me the original full purchase price for the Americana. ( I had to pay return shipping costs)

I found the Petosa family both Joe,Jr. , and Joey very accommodating allowing me to buy the best accordion I’ll own in this lifetime.

 

[Ventura]

Joey Petosa credited me the original full purchase price for the Americana.

that is significant, and changes the equation on the Americana value,
if that is a policy and extended to all buyers, that trade up's
within a certain amount of time are fully credited

 

[Tommaso B]

that is significant, and changes the equation on the Americana value,
if that is a policy and extended to all buyers, that trade up's
within a certain amount of time are fully credited

That IS their stated and followed policy. I have found both father Joe and son Joey Petosa to be very accommodating to do business with, of course anxious to equate their name and brand with quality.

 

[micahcowan]

that is significant, and changes the equation on the Americana value,
if that is a policy and extended to all buyers, that trade up's
within a certain amount of time are fully credited

Yes, this policy is blanket, and was expressed to me as well (but it must be within 1 year). They also accept any of their USED instruments back, within 6 months' time, full value toward any accordion of equal or greater value, and they extend that policy to 1 year in trade-ins for Petosas.

I was (just) past the 6 month line with my Paulo Soprani, and wished to trade for the compact converter Americana Nemo II. I spoke with them over the phone and they were happy to graciously extend me an additional month on the policy.

These policies are available on their website as well.

 

[OuijaBoard]

Yes, this policy is blanket, and was expressed to me as well (but it must be within 1 year). They also accept any of their USED instruments back, within 6 months' time, full value toward any accordion of equal or greater value, and they extend that policy to 1 year in trade-ins for Petosas.

I was (just) past the 6 month line with my Paulo Soprani, and wished to trade for the compact converter Americana Nemo II. I spoke with them over the phone and they were happy to graciously extend me an additional month on the policy.

These policies are available on their website as well.

Was your Soprani compact too? CBA or PA? Do you like your Nemo?