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Using one man band software for auto-accompaniment
- Thread starter fogman25
- Start date
Oh it did, but I tend to read over those like over expressive marks in a score.Not at all, I did add aemoticon, though it didn't display properly
Yes my thoughts exactly ......much easier with a good arranger module
Keymn
Prolific poster
What happened to the good ole fashion drum machines? Had a dozen buttons for different styles, you set the tempo and away you play.
Like everything else people try to evolve the thing… and I could see that a digital/pc driven product could be better, but so far no one has exceeded the functionality/portability of the hardware arranger.
100 buttons and a pedalboard have no real replacement on a touchscreen.
Keymn
Prolific poster
Seems the iPad has revolutionized the music industry. Used with a good hardware arranger makes it easier for performing.
It certainly has changed and immensely improved my setup for sure! I enjoy my all wireless setup, for my needs it is perfect.
Rosie C
Well-known member
Yesterday I was looking on YouTube for information about the BK7 and other arrangers. First video up was from a guy called JerryPH explaining how to set one up for an accordion ;-)
Our mediaeval band really should be three people, whereas there are just two of us. I had a gut-full of band politics in 2022-23 so I'm looking at options like an arranger module, or a backing track.
Well, let me put it this way... I use an arranger and enjoy it a lot, but I would never depend on one completely. So, though I use it, I don't use it in all my playing.
Arrangers are mechanical, perfect beat and can sound good but will never beat the dynamics of a group.
Alone or with maybe another person, I can see it working and I am sure that it could be made to work in any size group, but if you are one member away from completing your group, I would want to encourage you to find members that are aligned with the "no drama allowed" rule and focus on the goals defined by the band leader which should be playing and performing.
Being the lead in a band is not always enough because the leading needs to extend outside the performance and guide the overall direction/evolution of the group. Having everyone understand this is likely the hardest part of being in the band and is one of the reasons bands have drama.
I recall one session where our band leader had to step off the stage and placed the trumpet in charge. One song later the clarinet complained that the song was played too slow and they almost started to argue on stage. I was about 15 at the time and just looked at the drummer, loudly pronounced the next song, stomped the beat and started to play. Within one measure we were a band again. I respectfully handed the "baton" back to the trumpet player and things moved on.
Such is often the life of a band.
Arrangers are mechanical, perfect beat and can sound good but will never beat the dynamics of a group.
Alone or with maybe another person, I can see it working and I am sure that it could be made to work in any size group, but if you are one member away from completing your group, I would want to encourage you to find members that are aligned with the "no drama allowed" rule and focus on the goals defined by the band leader which should be playing and performing.
Being the lead in a band is not always enough because the leading needs to extend outside the performance and guide the overall direction/evolution of the group. Having everyone understand this is likely the hardest part of being in the band and is one of the reasons bands have drama.
I recall one session where our band leader had to step off the stage and placed the trumpet in charge. One song later the clarinet complained that the song was played too slow and they almost started to argue on stage. I was about 15 at the time and just looked at the drummer, loudly pronounced the next song, stomped the beat and started to play. Within one measure we were a band again. I respectfully handed the "baton" back to the trumpet player and things moved on.
Such is often the life of a band.
Rosie C
Well-known member
It is tricky. I have a friend who is a wizard on mandolin, and another who is a professional keyboard player. Both are keen to be in the band but both work evenings and sometimes can't commit to dates. When they can make it there's a great vibe and they're both friend not just band members. We had a new member lined up - met up with him, swapped some music. We arranged a rehearsal, he messaged to say he wasn't feeling great and would have to do another date, and that's the last we ever heard of him. So drama before we even played a note together.
I was chatting to a guy who is a band leader for a church band - guitar, bass, keyboard, drums, horns. He has backing tracks for each member of the band, plus a click-track - if someone can't make it, he unmutes the backing track for their instrument. No drama if someone can't make it. I liked the idea of that - have harpsichord and mandolin backing tracks, and our fee can reflect how many of us turn up. But then (I mentioned this in another topic) I was thinking how when I'm playing recorder solo I could control something like a BK7 with a bass pedalboard.
One of my favourite bands is a father-daughter duo - she sings and plays bodhran, he sings and plays guitar and octave mandolin - and they sound great, so I am quite convinced that a third band member is a luxury!
Ventura
Been here for ages!
" He has backing tracks for each member of the band, plus a click-track - if someone can't make it, he unmutes the backing track for their instrument. "
this is where being MIDI based in your home studio gives a huge advantage,
as you can forever create/beg/borrow/steal trax then manipulate them
forever after
to do that exact thing as well as tons more..
MIDI trax are just DATA after all, and your sequencer is just a musicians
version of Microsoft Word
for performance, you can render your studio stuff to MP3 or Wav and
gig with them off your Phone bluetoothed audio to your PA system
or
get a dedicated device to play and manipulate MIDI stuff live
in Europe, you can still find those Technics modules used, and you might
spot a Korg i series module (which has an independantly useable
incredible drum machine built in) so $100 bucks solutions are possible
for the home studio, there are lots of ways to set up a MIDI computer workstation
dedicated to Music at low cost using older software and an old Windows 7 comp
useless for anything else
this is where being MIDI based in your home studio gives a huge advantage,
as you can forever create/beg/borrow/steal trax then manipulate them
forever after
to do that exact thing as well as tons more..
MIDI trax are just DATA after all, and your sequencer is just a musicians
version of Microsoft Word
for performance, you can render your studio stuff to MP3 or Wav and
gig with them off your Phone bluetoothed audio to your PA system
or
get a dedicated device to play and manipulate MIDI stuff live
in Europe, you can still find those Technics modules used, and you might
spot a Korg i series module (which has an independantly useable
incredible drum machine built in) so $100 bucks solutions are possible
for the home studio, there are lots of ways to set up a MIDI computer workstation
dedicated to Music at low cost using older software and an old Windows 7 comp
useless for anything else
Rosie C
Well-known member
I'm MIDI based as far as all our music is in "MuseScore" and I can export it into Logic Pro as MIDI and mix in live recordings. We're only rehearsing at the moment, so as you say I export to MP3 and stream from my phone to our PA system.
"a dedicated device to play and manipulate MIDI stuff live" is kind of where my thinking is at the moment, but it's not an area I know much about. I've been brushing up my piano playing recently with a view to buying a portable keyboard with a decent harpsichord voice and MIDI ports - partly because I think I'd feel more comfortable playing a piece live, before switching on a pre-recorded part.
"a dedicated device to play and manipulate MIDI stuff live" is kind of where my thinking is at the moment, but it's not an area I know much about. I've been brushing up my piano playing recently with a view to buying a portable keyboard with a decent harpsichord voice and MIDI ports - partly because I think I'd feel more comfortable playing a piece live, before switching on a pre-recorded part.
It is tricky. I have a friend who is a wizard on mandolin, and another who is a professional keyboard player. Both are keen to be in the band but both work evenings and sometimes can't commit to dates. When they can make it there's a great vibe and they're both friend not just band members. We had a new member lined up - met up with him, swapped some music. We arranged a rehearsal, he messaged to say he wasn't feeling great and would have to do another date, and that's the last we ever heard of him. So drama before we even played a note together.
I was chatting to a guy who is a band leader for a church band - guitar, bass, keyboard, drums, horns. He has backing tracks for each member of the band, plus a click-track - if someone can't make it, he unmutes the backing track for their instrument. No drama if someone can't make it. I liked the idea of that - have harpsichord and mandolin backing tracks, and our fee can reflect how many of us turn up. But then (I mentioned this in another topic) I was thinking how when I'm playing recorder solo I could control something like a BK7 with a bass pedalboard.
One of my favourite bands is a father-daughter duo - she sings and plays bodhran, he sings and plays guitar and octave mandolin - and they sound great, so I am quite convinced that a third band member is a luxury!
If you look on jerryph's wabsite "mild to wild" he show you how to do just that, including making your own foot pedal.
I have done this and it works a treat
The one thing where MIDI shines is changing pitch and speed independently without the material becoming weird. In our accordion ensemble, I started employing a Solton MS40 as rhythm machine while we were practising remotely via Jamulus: having one core "player" who isn't fazed by latency does a lot for not getting slowed down. Since drummers would get bored out of their mind with our practice speed and thus come into play only shortly before concert, I subsequently started entering the drum parts into LilyPond and replaying them for practice. It can really add something into the mix, though we haven't used it in actual performance so far. And it definitely helps figuring out which passages tend to get off-time (sometimes too fast, sometimes too slow).
Alan Sharkis
Well-known member
It goes beyond that. I have stories both from personal experience and from the experiences of others. So do many people who post here. We could probably put a book together.Well, let me put it this way... I use an arranger and enjoy it a lot, but I would never depend on one completely. So, though I use it, I don't use it in all my playing.
Arrangers are mechanical, perfect beat and can sound good but will never beat the dynamics of a group.
Alone or with maybe another person, I can see it working and I am sure that it could be made to work in any size group, but if you are one member away from completing your group, I would want to encourage you to find members that are aligned with the "no drama allowed" rule and focus on the goals defined by the band leader which should be playing and performing.
Being the lead in a band is not always enough because the leading needs to extend outside the performance and guide the overall direction/evolution of the group. Having everyone understand this is likely the hardest part of being in the band and is one of the reasons bands have drama.
I recall one session where our band leader had to step off the stage and placed the trumpet in charge. One song later the clarinet complained that the song was played too slow and they almost started to argue on stage. I was about 15 at the time and just looked at the drummer, loudly pronounced the next song, stomped the beat and started to play. Within one measure we were a band again. I respectfully handed the "baton" back to the trumpet player and things moved on.
Such is often the life of a band.
Alan Sharkis
Well-known member
As a guy who used to create midi-karaoke files, I used to use the fact that midi allows independent control of pitch and tempo as a killer argument against the guys who claimed that CDG+MP3 was a superior karaoke medium. Midi-karaoke is by now obsolete, but the basis for my argument lives on.
Is LilyPond popular where you are? I tried it years ago, but soon opted for notation software with a GUI. Then Denemo came out as a graphical front end to LilyPond, so I tried to make that work, but it wouldn’t take input from my controller keyboard. I. wrote to the Denemo developers for help and their reply was, “It works with our keyboards,” That turned me off to open source software and LilyPond.
It's not that MIDI technology is weak or anything like that, but that there is currently no functional solution out there in the MIDI file world that would work as reliably as a real musician... the example that Rosie C mentioned aside.
I've not seen that possible solution in action yet. But even then it is far from practical. One would need to take the time and create tracks for EVERY musician and then turn of the ones for the musicians present... IMHO an incredible amount of work if we are talking a multihour session and where the songs change often, which makes that impractical at the least.
I've not seen that possible solution in action yet. But even then it is far from practical. One would need to take the time and create tracks for EVERY musician and then turn of the ones for the musicians present... IMHO an incredible amount of work if we are talking a multihour session and where the songs change often, which makes that impractical at the least.
It's kind of not relevant to my involvement with LilyPond since I've been its project lead for the better part of the last 1½ decades. Its popularity is more related to a state of mind than the place of residence.
Well, if Free Software breaks, you get to keep the pieces. With proprietary software, you don't get to keep the pieces. But they have dedicated personnel shielding the developers from the users and making the users feel better about being without recourse. When the developer does not have the problematic gear at hand with Free Software, it falls to the user to do the experiments or donate hardware, and sometimes to give reminders.
The "Denemo developers" is mainly just Richard Shann, and Denemo is a separate project from LilyPond (which does right now have several active developers). The generally accepted best IDE for LilyPond these days is Frescobaldi, an editing environment created in the context of the current protestant songbook in the Netherlands entered by dozens of volunteers. You wouldn't know from the website these days, but it has been created using LilyPond. As opposed to Denemo, you don't manipulate notes graphically in Frescobaldi but do get reasonably fast graphical feedback.
Frescobaldi has MIDI entry of notes but that is nothing to write home about in my opinion. If you are good at rhythmical play, it probably makes more sense to play your content into Rosegarden, a MIDI synthesizer that is able to do quantization, and then export your content as a LilyPond file.
In the end, I find that just biting the bullet and entering in LilyPond's native language with a typewriter keyboard is the most unproblematic manner of working, and Frescobaldi does a good job supporting that.
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Alan Sharkis
Well-known member
I'm a Mac user at this point and I've given up my Sibelius license for MuseScore, which is free and, for my purposes, does just as good a job as Sibelius, which costs a lot. But I tend to keep my DAW (at this point Logic) and my notation tasks separate, although Logic's staff window is pretty good and MuseScore is moving into DAW territory.
