FR-4x newbie questions

[sarahb]

Hi all, I'm new here and also just got my first Roland FR-4x. I'm really confused about why it sounds so different from my acoustic (An International centro-matic, standard Stradella). The FR-4x is in B&C mode set to 3B.B7, which is what the dealer instructed me to use. I'm finding that the 7 bass reed registers all sound completely different from those on my acoustic. Also, the chord triads for the bass button rows seem to be completely different - instead of 1) 3rd, 2) root, 3) major, 4) minor, 5) dom, 6) dim, the Roland manual shows row 4) as M and 5) as m, but neither of them sound like normal minor triads. When I play a minor triad on the right hand keys I simply can't find a button combo on the left that sounds the same. The manual says the bass can be extended to three rows, is that what I need to do? And what would the tone/interval configuration of those three rows be?
Does anyone know of some good configuration tutorials or videos on the FR-4x? I'm currently having terrible buyer's remorse
Thanks!

 

[Ventura]

first, put it back in normal stradella mode (2 rows of bass) and
audition the reed blends again

that way you can decide if it is a fundamental difference in
the way your International was set up VS: the Roland

it may just be 3 bass row 3 chord Maj Min 7th is supposed to be
voiced and arranged differently than a normal stradella, and so
you are at the moment comparing apples to oranges

and there are a lot of past discussions here on the 4x if you search

be patient

 

[JerryPH]

2nd small wisdom if I may share... don't try to compare a DIGITAL accordion to an ACOUSTIC accordion... you will be very unhappy with the results. Instead focus on the advantages that each offers you and enjoy the best that both can offer.

 

[sarahb]

first, put it back in normal stradella mode (2 rows of bass) and
audition the reed blends again

that way you can decide if it is a fundamental difference in
the way your International was set up VS: the Roland

it may just be 3 bass row 3 chord Maj Min 7th is supposed to be
voiced and arranged differently than a normal stradella, and so
you are at the moment comparing apples to oranges

and there are a lot of past discussions here on the 4x if you search

be patient

Hi and thanks - what I can't figure out is how to get it into a normal Stradella configuration - the dealer says it should be that way. The two bass rows sound normal, it's the chord rows that sound different. If I need to learn all new bass fingering I'll just return the accordion!

 

[sarahb]

2nd small wisdom if I may share... don't try to compare a DIGITAL accordion to an ACOUSTIC accordion... you will be very unhappy with the results. Instead focus on the advantages that each offers you and enjoy the best that both can offer.

I don't expect it to have the same sound quality, but right now it's actually playing different reed combinations and chord intervals. That's a separate issue from the digital/acoustic issue (I have both acoustic and digital pianos so I'm aware of the inevitable differences).

 

[sarahb]

Okay I figured out how to reset the B&C mode to 2B so now the bass rows are like my acoustic. It's really odd that the manual doesn't include any information about what all the menu settings mean, but I just tried all the B&C options.

 

[JerryPH]

If you bought a used FR-4x it should come with the bass in Stradella. if there are no custom sounds, a factory reset will get things back. I would recommend downloading the free PDF manuals from Roland and spending an evening doing some reading. BTW there are 2 manuals for the 4x.

 

[Ventura]

and now we get to the 1000 pound Hippo in the room

no Roland dealer is going to:
put a brand new FR-4x in B&C mode set to 3B.B7,
"which is what the dealer instructed me to use"

Woah there

i am glad you have it set in normal mode now and are getting
over the strangeness of a Roland, but what exactly did this "dealer" represent
this Roland to you as ? because if he is not an authorized dealer, you have
no Roland Warranty..

obviously you bought it sight unseen having never played a Roland before
so forgive me if i am mildly concerned about how you got "sold"

if he received the accordion in "in B&C mode set to 3B.B7"
then it is not new, and if he sent it to you that way, he was also clueless
about how to do even a simple global reset or settings adjustment

 

[dunlustin]

Have you got the reference manual?

 

[sarahb]

I bought it from a dealer and have the manual. Contacted Roland and they sent me an additional reference manual.
I'm signing off here. To be honest y'all were way more condescending than helpful.

 

[JerryPH]

I bought it from a dealer and have the manual. Contacted Roland and they sent me an additional reference manual.
I'm signing off here. To be honest y'all were way more condescending than helpful.

Actually, Sarah, they were being more honest than condescending but, of course we are all free to do as we wish.

I think that had you spent a little more time reading here some of the past posts about setting expectations, and where to find the TWO reference manuals for free from Roland website (no need to wait for them to send it to you, as you will find searching and reading on the computer WAY faster and more convenient than from a piece of paper), and more importantly, read about past experiences of other V-accordionists and then shared your expectations... you would have found that:
1 - this is likely the least condescending group of people you will encounter, if anything they are brutally and often humerously straight to the point.
2 - you have some INCREDIBLY experienced people on this forum on the accordion AND with v-accordions
3 - your comments were quite alarming from the point of view of how you were treated and the utter BS that your dealer handed you. That part more than anything stopped me in my tracks and made me say "wow... just... wow".

About the comment that the manual did not explain all the settings... it was because you only had 1 of the 2 available manuals. Not sure if you are ever going to see this, but I see in your future the same comment I had after reading the manual... that there is a ton of info in there, and that ultimately, they are still pretty useless after about a week after owning your v-accordion. You will understand exactly what I mean in about a week.

Wish you all the best.

 

[Ventura]

FR-4x_Supplementary_Manual.pdf
FR-4x_Tone_List.pdf
FR-4x_reference.pdf
FR-4X_Manual.pdf
FR-4x_ImportUserPrograms_e01_W.pdf
FR-4x_editor.pdf
and then the pdf files with each expansion pack

luckily i have an old brother Laser black and white pinter that
i can't seem to kill or run out the Toner,
and i have an old Comb electric punch/binder to put them together

easier for me to understand stuff if i can peruse it on the Throne

 

[Chris Laarman]

FR-4x_Supplementary_Manual.pdf
FR-4x_Tone_List.pdf
FR-4x_reference.pdf
FR-4X_Manual.pdf
FR-4x_ImportUserPrograms_e01_W.pdf
FR-4x_editor.pdf
and then the pdf files with each expansion pack

luckily i have an old brother Laser black and white pinter that
i can't seem to kill or run out the Toner,
and i have an old Comb electric punch/binder to put them together

easier for me to understand stuff if i can peruse it on the Throne

So the FR-4x documentation must fill about half a bookshelf. ;-)

For comparison: I keep all my manuals in the cloud, and I have two large iPads plus some regular-size tablets to consult the manuals. Arguments in favor of this electronic approach are: zooming and searching.

 

[Ventura]

zooming is nice !

paper copies allow my favorite tool... osmosis

 

[Alan Sharkis]

So the FR-4x documentation must fill about half a bookshelf. ;-)

For comparison: I keep all my manuals in the cloud, and I have two large iPads plus some regular-size tablets to consult the manuals. Arguments in favor of this electronic approach are: zooming and searching.

We’re all different in some respects. I find that manuals are easier to read from a printed oage. At any rate, i have all of the FR-4x manuals in one 3” binder along with some forms I downloaded from another site that make it easy to record the contents of sets and user programs, and a “Getting Started” kind of manual that my dealer put together that’s several pages long.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Hi all, I'm new here and also just got my first Roland FR-4x. I'm really confused about why it sounds so different from my acoustic (An International centro-matic, standard Stradella). The FR-4x is in B&C mode set to 3B.B7, which is what the dealer instructed me to use. I'm finding that the 7 bass reed registers all sound completely different from those on my acoustic. Also, the chord triads for the bass button rows seem to be completely different - instead of 1) 3rd, 2) root, 3) major, 4) minor, 5) dom, 6) dim, the Roland manual shows row 4) as M and 5) as m, but neither of them sound like normal minor triads. When I play a minor triad on the right hand keys I simply can't find a button combo on the left that sounds the same. The manual says the bass can be extended to three rows, is that what I need to do? And what would the tone/interval configuration of those three rows be?
Does anyone know of some good configuration tutorials or videos on the FR-4x? I'm currently having terrible buyer's remorse
Thanks!

Hello Sarah and welcome. I have a question for you:

Did you listrn to those chords in all available registers? I’m asking because my experience was that chords in some registers on the 4x can sound muddy. You might want to set the 4x back to 2-row bass and 4-row chords. As for voicing those chords, there are examples in the reference manual that adress the topic, but for now, stick to what is set up from the factory and see if you can work from that.

 

[Tom]

Sorry the forum didn't work out for you Sarah. I have gotten so much good info from the kind and knowlegeable people here on my Fr4. Really more than I can use. Most people feel the Fr4 sounds terrible "right out of the box" and takes some "tweaks" to find sounds you like. If you put the time in to get to know it, generally you find sounds you like, but it takes some time and effort. Best of luck to you!

 

[John M]

Sarah -- I didn't like the sound of my 8X out of the box. Roland just gets you to "First Base". But the tools to create the tones/sounds you like are there. You have to "dig" a little, but with the help of knowledgeable forum members you can go a long way.
Unless you work at the Roland factory, you won't find anyone as knowledgeable about the design and technical detail of the "V" accordion as Ventura on this Forum. AND, he is willing to share his knowledge with everyone.

 

[davidplaysaccordion]

I might be being dumb or maybe I should RTFM but what is B&C mode?

 

[JerryPH]

I might be being dumb or maybe I should RTFM but what is B&C mode?

TrblMode” (right-hand keyboard) or “B&C Mode” (left-hand button keyboard). A fairly stupid acronym for bass and chord mode.
Page 8 of the manual