Why do Accordion Companies Not Post Prices?

[JeffJetton]

This is one of those eternal accordion mysteries (along with "why do so many accordion players wear hats when they play?")

It seems like every time I'm interested in an accordion, I have the darnedest time getting the answer to the most basic and universal question any consumer can have: How much does the thing cost?

I can find the manufacturer's or distributor's website just fine. I can browse through all their models, no problem. Plenty of info about the number of keys, reeds, buttons, type of wood, weight, size... but the price? Nope. Apparently that's a big secret.

Heck, even accordion stores don't list prices on their pages most of the time. :hb

What is up with that???

 

[maugein96]

Hi Jeff,

I don't have inside knowledge of the accordion industry, but here are a few points to consider.

We have the same sort of issue in Europe, with stores having things like "Contact us re pricing," or similar. Problem we all have is that there are not all that many accordions made these days.

You can typically go into the Cavagnolo web site and they have "list prices" . A typical top of the range accordion will be priced at around 10,000 Euro. That's the basic price. If you want Belgian B system, add 750 Euro, Belgian basses add 350 Euro, fancy paint job add 800 Euro, 5th row add 600, and so it goes on.

I would imagine that over your side your accordion store may have to order an instrument from a foreign source, and as such you are immediately dealing with currency fluctuations, import duty, state tax, and whatever else. Therefore your store is unlikely to quote a fixed price until they've nailed you to a particular spec. At that point they'll contact the maker and the calculators come out. You'll then get the price and a chair to sit on after you do, in case you collapse with shock.

With used instruments the store obviously already has the instrument in stock. However, if you are looking to trade an instrument in, the price may be negotiable. In fact, even if you don't have an instrument to trade the store may have had the model in stock for so long that they'll offer you a discount anyway.

Here's an anomaly for you. About 1983 I bought my first accordion, a brand new Guerrini LMMM CBA, all decorated with fancy diamantes, but no tone chamber. I never kept it long as it wasn't really suitable for the music I liked. I paid £865 GBP for it. Three years ago I saw it advertised for sale in the UK for £2250. It's still for sale but the seller has reduced the price by half.

It seems to be the case that certain types of instrument may actually increase in value many years after their date of manufacture, but I certainly wouldn't buy an accordion as an investment!

Sorry, but there is no simple answer to your question. I know of a small accordion shop in Bordeaux, France, which sells reconditioned French top brand accordions for typically less than half the price of the bigger outlets, but Bordeaux is a long way away from you and I, and I guess you wouldn't really be looking for one of theirs in any case.

Maybe somebody with inside knowledge of the business over your side, like Jim D, might know what the situation is?

 

[JerryPH]

The top reasons they want you to call then and ask for the price instead of posting it online...

- Sticker shock. If you saw the full retail price of the box you are interested in, the price just scared you away.
- If they can talk to you, their chances of making a sale instantly goes up by 50%.
- For smaller cheap accordions, they want to up-sell you. They cannot do that if you don't call.

Basically, it's a sound business practice to not post prices online. It entices people to call and it gives the sales people a better chance of satisfying your needs.

 

[Thomas N]

The top reasons they want you to call then and ask for the price instead of posting it online...

- Sticker shock. If you saw the full retail price of the box you are interested in, the price just scared you away.
- If they can talk to you, their chances of making a sale instantly goes up by 50%.
- For smaller cheap accordions, they want to up-sell you. They cannot do that if you dont call.

Basically, its a sound business practice to not post prices online. It entices people to call and it gives the sales people a better chance of satisfying your needs.

The problem is that in todays increasingly instant-gratification world and with everything available at an instant 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, people are NOT going to call and ask about the pricing and potential sales will be lost.

 

[debra]

...
Heck, even accordion stores dont list prices on their pages most of the time. :hb

What is up with that???

Jerry already pointed out some interesting points (sticker shock, upsell, etc.).

There may be a bit of an issue with some stores and brands. For instance there is a sole distributor for brand X in the Benelux but some stores order instruments directly at factory X, but do not want to publish a price list on the Web to avoid any possible problems. (There may be branches in which such grey import does not work, but considering that our factories are mainly from Italy its no surprise that sole distributor means nothing.) From the stores (worldwide) that do publish prices (that are typically way too high) you can do your own guesswork to deduce what your favorite store will charge.

I generally dislike these sales practices for all types of products. I like to know a fixed price, no bargaining (possibly with trade-in), no discounts... stores should compete with reputation and service, not price. Were not buying bread or milk. But alas, the world is different.

At the Frankfurter musikmesse I showed interest in a Beltuna (Prestige Paris IV I believe) and played it (in a more or less silent room) for a while. The representative then said it costs 18k but they could make a deal on a stock instrument for 15k. Needless to say I said no. When 18k is the list price the real price should be around 13k, certainly no more for a stock instrument... but this is a brand where its hard to get a good deal anywhere.

In the past I have bought several Bugari instruments at a good price, but prices have gone up tremendously in the past 15 years, at a much faster rate than the average cost of living. The (real) price has essentially doubled in 15 years. This of course means that sticker shock becomes more and more of a problem. And at the prices used by some stores the accordion is getting a reputation of being too expensive for people to stimulate their children to start playing it.

 

[JerryPH]

Comparatively speaking, an accordion is quite expensive when you compare it to other instruments like guitars and once you start going up in quality, prices hike up quickly and I can see it being a deterrent for most parents. Theyd rather spend $1000 on a guitar than $2500 on an accordion for their kids. There is also the unfortunate stigma that our instrument sadly continues to have.

A bit off topic, but Im still a bit in awe of my situation when thinking back of what level of dedication my parents had to have to me, not only for spending huge sums of money on a kid that was just barely a teenager (they were by no means rich or anything!), for such an expensive accordion in the 70s, but to travel over 12,000 kilometers in the process to get it for me.

The problem is that in todays increasingly instant-gratification world and with everything available at an instant 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, people are NOT going to call and ask about the pricing and potential sales will be lost.

I am sure that if you were looking for an accordion and found an online seller that if you liked an instrument but had no pricing, you would call instead of passing on this dealer. Another thing is that people from a broader distance will be able to see your stock. Not many people will want to travel 30 miles to see an instrument, much less travel to the other side of the world to see it before purchasing. Over the internet, one can make arrangements for the exchange of pictures, audio and even video to display the product before opening a dialog. Makes for a much lower level of sales pressure at least initially.

Marketing people are annoying (lol), but they are smart and its a well proven fact that the odds are greater of them getting calls than loosing sales. The big thing today is that most brick and mortar stores spend 80% of their time making sales to 20% of the people. In an online environment, it effectively reverses. Yes, you will get a lot fewer contacts from customers, but the ones most ready to spend their money or most interested in your specific product will contact you and will ask for pricing. Its a very efficient way of conducting business and one of the main reasons stores are suffering when trying to compete against the internet.

 

[debra]

...
A bit off topic, but Im still a bit in awe of my situation when thinking back of what level of dedication my parents had to have to me, not only for spending huge sums of money on a kid that was just barely a teenager (they were by no means rich or anything!), for such an expensive accordion in the 70s, but to travel over 12,000 kilometers in the process to get it for me.
...

I am really impressed with the effort your parents put into getting you a nice accordion! I traveled around 400 kilometers to get my Morino and I already felt that was a bit crazy and that was just for myself... My parents had three kids playing the piano and the accordion. Obviously they bought just one piano but three accordions was a serious expense and they certainly were not rich. For the price of one accordion at the time they could buy a reasonable used car. These were not professional accordions that cost as much as a reasonable new car.
I said accordions have become incredibly expensive now, but maybe I should revise that because the comparison with a car is still more or less the same... A good full size amateur accordion (cassotto but no convertor) costs anywhere from 5.000 to 10.000 euro depending on the brand and some of the features and a good professional instrument anywhere from 10.000 to 30.000 euro or so. There are not that many other instruments where prices are this crazy (not counting unique historical instruments but new factory built ones).

 

[TomBR]

I guess pianos are the obvious comparison. New Yamahas seem to run £3000 to £11,000 for an upright. Easy to see prices online!

Isn't it a matter of market sector - it's easy enough to find prices for Weltmeister, Hohner, Pigini.

Allodi list new prices up to about £7,000, but converters and bayans etc are "to order" and it's "price on application"

 

[JeffJetton]

its a well proven fact that the odds are greater of them getting calls than loosing sales.

Is it really well-proven? Im skeptical. If withholding pricing information and forcing the customer to jump through hoops just to be able to tell what products of yours (if any) are in their price range is such a smart marketing move, why do so few industries do it?

For example, car manufacturers arent shy about their MSRPs... even for very expensive cars. Real Estate agents dont withhold their home prices from Zillow and Trulia and force you to call them instead. Heck, I can go onto a website right now and get an exact price on a 40-foot yacht with my choice of options. Are they missing out on sales by doing that?

Personally, I think its annoying as all get-out. If Im in the market for a new accordion (which I am, but then arent we all?), and Im gathering information on several brands and models, why should I have to make a bunch of phone calls or send a bunch of email just to be able to tell what accordions should be in the running and which ones shouldnt?

When these same accordions are sitting in music stores, do they have price tags? Or do they just have a sticker that says go find a salesperson to tell you how much this costs? :lol:

 

[JeffJetton]

Isnt it a matter of market sector - its easy enough to find prices for Weltmeister, Hohner, Pigini.

Agree on the first two. But that last one is an interesting example. Unfortunately, theres only one Pigini dealer Ive founder here in the states, and they pull the old contact us for price quotes trick.

Which is weird, because, of course, I can pop over to The Music Room and get prices on all their Piginis just fine. Is the theory that Brits are better equipped to handle learning about accordion prices than us Yanks?

 

[debra]

...
When these same accordions are sitting in music stores, do they have price tags? Or do they just have a sticker that says go find a salesperson to tell you how much this costs? :lol:

[/quote]
My limited experience is that indeed accordions sitting in music stores do have price tags.
And when you say there is only one Pigini dealer (or a dealer of any other Italian brand), dont believe it. Italian companies will sell to anyone willing to buy. So any accordion shop can get a Pigini for you and you can also order one from the company directly although for that its best to just go to Italy... (you save much more money than the cost of two trips, one to choose your instrument and one to pick it up).
Also, my experience has been that unlike what others have said options about systems (C system, B system, Finnish, Belgian, stradella bass or belgian bass, C system or B system or Russian B system on the bass side) are all choices that do not influence the price of the instrument. Minor additions such as a bellows protector, bellows straps, are all free extras. Options that do cost extra are things like chin switches (on non-convertor instruments).
Frankly I do not really care how the price of an accordion is computed. I only care what the price is I have to pay. For my latest purchase it was very clear that getting the very best Russian accordion was a much more economic option than any of the good to excellent Italian options would have been. And I can testify that in terms of quality this was not a compromise. The Italians are increasingly making life difficult for themselves and Borsini and Ballone Burini already folded (rumors are that Ballone Burini may restart but I have no details). For all smaller players life is very difficult. I have hopes that the likes of Bugari and Pigini will survive but not too many others.

 

[maugein96]

Also, my experience has been that unlike what others have said options about systems (C system, B system, Finnish, Belgian, stradella bass or belgian bass, C system or B system or Russian B system on the bass side) are all choices that do not influence the price of the instrument.

Hi Paul,

Here is a link to the current Cavagnolo price list. If you scroll down far enough, youll see that there is an additional charge for B (system Russe) treble, and Belgian basses.

About 20 years ago I ordered a new Italian made Piermaria P315, then valued at £3000 GBP, and was charged about £200 extra for 4x2 bass instead of the standard 3x3. They also wanted about £200 more if I wanted a 5th row added, which I fortunately did not require.

I appreciate your own experience has been different in respect of such add-ons, but some manufacturers definitely hit you for what they perceive to be non-standard specification.

http://www.cavagnolo-accordeon.com/tarifs.html

 

[Matt Butcher]

I had thought the answer might be - so as not to tie the hands of their dealers, and, to allow for differential pricing in different territories (e.g. Giustozzi sells in Italy, South America and the Balkans, and will provide a price list on request which is then fixed, but will only guarantee that the price list is valid for that particular transaction. I have no idea whether prices would be the same in different territories but I don't see why they necessarily should be.) When you go onto Roland's website it's no different (though obviously with Roland products you can get a market price using Google in a couple of minutes). But I suspect a tradition of informal and flexible business arrangements may also play a part and I couldn't say whether that was a good thing or a bad thing.

 

[debra]

...
Here is a link to the current Cavagnolo price list. If you scroll down far enough, you'll see that there is an additional charge for B (system Russe) treble, and Belgian basses.

About 20 years ago I ordered a new Italian made Piermaria P315, then valued at £3000 GBP, and was charged about £200 extra for 4x2 bass instead of the standard 3x3. They also wanted about £200 more if I wanted a 5th row added, which I fortunately did not require.
...

Interesting to see that. It may have to do with the specific series being very typical French which are always C-griff. But even then I would think Belgian bass system would be rather normal.
With "standard" models brands like Bugari, Pigini, Ballone Burini (now defunct) and others did not use to charge extra for the choice of system left or right. This is probably because they sell so many accordions to so many different markets that they build everything alike.
And even when I bought my AKKO there was no surcharge to get a C griff bayan even though for them that is very rare.
Thanks for showing me that I should not generalize what I know to what I do not know. I have a tendency to jump to conclusions...

 

[JerryPH]

Is it really well-proven?

According to a seminar I attended by Coalition Technologies (one of the top 5 internet marketing companies in North America), it is well proven. They discussed the differences between products and he asked for 2 products, one guy screamed out chickens! and I yelled out accordions!. After everyone finished laughing a bit, he said it was rare that people hit on the two almost perfect examples. People knew what chickens were, that they are a mainstay of the world and did not need much more information other than price, so if someone did not post prices for chickens online on their site, they *would* lose business. He said it would be the same for cars, drugs/meds, and so on. You mentioned boats, according to them, yes, boat manufacturers that post prices are loosing business by posting prices.

On the other hand, musical instruments (honest, it was just a coincidence that I said accordions, but it did get people to laugh at the seminar), specifically instruments that appealed to a small segment or were hard to find in your locale, it is to the stores advantage to not post prices but entice the potential client to call, where you can open the sales process.

For example, car manufacturers arent shy about their MSRPs...

You can probably travel 20 minutes and hit at least 3 dealers with the same car... so its not quite the same.

Personally, I think its annoying as all get-out... When these same accordions are sitting in music stores, do they have price tags? Or do they just have a sticker that says go find a salesperson to tell you how much this costs? :lol:

I find it annoying as hell too.

In the stores? I cannot speak of all places, most are a mix. The ones that I have seen, some have prices, some dont. The ones without a price... guess what they want you to do... lol

Besides the marketing side, as mentioned, there are other good reasons (options, custom features, etc...). For example, I challenge you to find me a website that shows a picture of a new Hohner Gola 454 (A standard Gola 414 with extended 45 key keyboard and 185 bass). Hohner themselves dont even show this model on their own website, but they still make and sell it, I had one priced out not too long ago.

There are a few reasons, but yeah, like you, its not my most favorite thing to see.

 

[maugein96]

Paul,

I believe Cavagnolo's excuse is that only certain of their workforce have the knowledge to build B system and Belgian basses, and perhaps those artisans are paid at a higher rate. I've no idea how Piermaria conduct their business these days. The accordions are documented as being made in Italy, with those for the French market being referred to as "French Line".

It's not as if they are mass produced, although I remember seeing a photo of rows of prefabricated Fratelli Crosio shells in an Italian factory. It was my understanding that those Crosios intended for the French market were shipped to an assembly facility "somewhere in France". I suppose that Crosio sold enough accordions in their heyday to justify prefabrication on a fairly large scale. That has never been the case with Cavagnolo and Maugein, who are relatively small fry, probably on account of their limited appeal.

My own Maugein mini sonora has 5 rows and 4x2 bass, and the original buyer would certainly have incurred an extra charge for that 5th row. Don't know about the bass configuration though. I sent them an e-mail some time ago, gave them the serial number, and asked for any info on the instrument. I never received a reply, but you probably know that Maugein almost went bust about that time. I may try again, but get the vibe that unless your enquiry concerns a potential sale, then it is unlikely that a reply will be forthcoming.

I've discovered since joining the forum how little I know about the accordion, French or otherwise. I've learned an awful lot of technical and other issues from reading your posts, and have great respect for your knowledge. We all tend to generalise and I am one of the worst offenders on here.

 

[debra]

Besides the marketing side, as mentioned, there are other good reasons (options, custom features, etc...). For example, I challenge you to find me a website that shows a picture of a new Hohner Gola 454 (A standard Gola 414 with extended 45 key keyboard and 185 bass). Hohner themselves dont even show this model on their own website, but they still make and sell it, I had one priced out not too long ago.

You didnt say what the price was, but I guess it was high enough to make you want to hold on to your Morino forever!
That is... until you win the lottery. I know a woman who had wanted to be a musician and accordion teacher but never got around to it. At some point (well into her 40s I believe) she won a huge sum in the lottery and quit her job, went to the conservatory, became an accordion teacher and ... bought a Hohner Gola.
I might actually have considered doing the same thing if that happened to me at least 10 years ago. Now... I would just retire and enjoy playing.

 

[JerryPH]

At the time, money was not an issue. I cannot recall the exact number, and I had a few other options tossed in (HATools 10-8 mic system. midi on both hands, including all 185 bass, custom tuning, custom colour). It was in the $55,000CAD range including all expenses for me to pick it up myself at the factory and it would have been the only accordion like it anywhere in the world.

I'm not sure if I mentioned it here, but I almost made that call to Hohner to place the order, but decided to wait a little. This was a good thing as a week later, my father passed away. I was the one that paid for his entire funeral this last June. The Gola money is now with my father and I feel it is a little bit of poetic justice. This is now the second time in my life that a Gola slipped through my fingers... lol

At my age, I don't know if I will ever be able to save up that much "fun" money again, and, yes, it would take a winning lottery ticket for me to make that call now. Life is funny, who knows what will happen. That woman you speak of is very lucky, not because she won a lottery, but because she can live her dreams.

By the way, there Is not enough money on earth for me to ever part with my Morino... lots of sentimental value there!

 

[debra]

...
By the way, there Is not enough money on earth for me to ever part with my Morino... lots of sentimental value there!

Same here. My wife told me repeatedly I should sell my Morino. But I cant. Even though I use it rarely (the AKKO is my main instrument and the small Bugari is a nice backup) I simply cannot see myself selling my Morino. I have been playing accordion for about 40 years before finally getting a Morino. It always felt like an instrument that was out of reach for me and now that I have one I cannot let it go. I do keep an eye on prices for used instruments and at the price used Morinos go around here there is absolutely no way I would sell it. For some reason (probably weight) there is very little demand for the larger Morinos.