What Piano Do You Prefer?

[Tom]

Looking good Walker! I also would love to have a beautiful grand piano and have seen a couple free for the taking, but don’t have the space. I don’t play one enough even to devote space to an upright so my Yamaha keyboard will have to do. Got those vintage 80s sound though and the single speaker design is very adequate…️

 

[Ffingers]

An interesting topic, but how many keyboard players of classical music of the earlier years have actually tried to play on the kind of instruments that those brilliant composers did their creating upon?
They deserve great credit if only for enduring the questionable accoustic quality of many of them.

 

[Walker]

An interesting topic, but how many keyboard players of classical music of the earlier years have actually tried to play on the kind of instruments that those brilliant composers did their creating upon?
They deserve great credit if only for enduring the questionable accoustic quality of many of them.

Well Ffingers, I don't know much about the quality of early keyboards (though I'm quite sure the very best ones would have been exquisite) what I do know is that there was so much high quality music composed long before the invention of the piano (early 1700s) that a person could, if he or she so wished, choose not to play a single piano piece their entire life and never be wanting for amazing music - the renaissance and early baroque periods gave such an abundant harvest. Now, I would actually love to own a harpsichord, spinet, clavichord, continuo organ or a portative organ, but as I don't believe in gathering large, dusty collections, I'd need a really good reason to choose an early keyboard to sit next to the piano and piano accordions. Thing is, while my small Quint free bass accordion has a range of notes comparable with a small harpsichord, my very modest Knight upright piano has a bigger range of notes than the greatest Russian bayan... so the common or garden upright piano has some serious capability.

Now, here's one thing I have discovered upon receiving our piano just the other day...

A few years ago, before I took up free bass accordion, I only played stradella bass accordion and on my occasional attempt to teach myself piano at the time, I always found the left hand of the piano to feel awkward and not pleasant to learn. However, having come back to piano after playing free bass for a few years, I am finding piano left hand miles easier to play than before. It's as if free bass accordion trains the brain to play 'polyphonic' style - including on other keyboard instruments. Now, my free bass accordion has its left hand based on 5ths (quint) so is not even closely related to the left hand layout of piano, but free bass just makes you become fluent in note pitch and reading bass clef over multiple octaves - things that stradella only accordionists tend to be weaker at.

For me, learning music has involved small progressions and additions... Stradella bass PA Quint free bass PA Piano ?

While I don't know where the path will lead next, I have a hunch that I would enjoy trying organ in the fullness of time.​

 

[JerryPH]

For me, learning music has involved small progressions and additions... Stradella bass PA Quint free bass PA Piano ?​

The evolutionary path that each person makes in their musical journey is nothing short of amazing. The fact that there are so many directions available is daunting.

Then you have people like me who had a singular direction given to them as a youth and are perfectly happy to stay on that singular path. I suppose that makes me a bit boring in comparison, but I am perfectly happy to be walking, tripping, falling and getting up to walk a little further along my little dusty musical path.

 

[Jose EB5AGV]

Interesting topic, I am glad someone refloated it, as I am just some months on the forum.

Let me tell you my real life experience: I have a used U3 and a good MIDI controller (Kawai VPC1) and plenty of good quality piano VSTs. For me, that is a sweet spot, as I don't have place for a grand and love to be able to virtually play any of them. And then, when I play the U3, I feel a real instrument which sings and vibrates under my fingers. Not a grand, yes, but lots more real than the best VST

 

[Ffingers]

Actually, if my visits to musical instrument museums - including Saltzburg - are anything to go by, those early clavichords etc, were somewhat crude in both construction and sound: Later adventures via this marvellous internet medium have done nothing to dispel that impression!
Our modern high quality instruments are a living example of the human ability to continually improve, invent and re-invent music in so many ways.

 

[dak]

If piano was my main instrument I'd have probably stayed with acoustic. But it's sits below recorders, mandocello, vocal, bass guitar and accordion. So I've now got a Kawai. I note Paul's comments about the brand, but I love mine and my piano teacher says of all the digitals he's played it's the one he likes best.

@debra was talking about acoustic pianos as far as I understand. Digital pianos are a different category, with different mechanics and different sound, both for direct recording and acoustically.

 

[Walker]

Then you have people like me who had a singular direction given to them as a youth and are perfectly happy to stay on that singular path. I suppose that makes me a bit boring in comparison, but I am perfectly happy to be walking, tripping, falling and getting up to walk a little further along my little dusty musical path.

My pal Jerry could never be boring! For the last few years we've been able to walk here on this dusty forum byway, yappin' about stuff - agreeing and disagreeing, and agreeing to disagree. Same with other greats like Saundersbp, Tom, Dingo40, Ffingers, Ventura. losthobos, DeBra to name just a few. There's always something to learn here.

I love the accordion and am slowly growing in appreciation for the piano but I think there are going to be other treasures to uncover further down the road. I'm not sure if I'll ever make it to the exhibits in the Saltzburg museum, but who knows!

Actually, if my visits to musical instrument museums - including Saltzburg - are anything to go by, those early clavichords etc, were somewhat crude in both construction and sound: Later adventures via this marvellous internet medium have done nothing to dispel that impression!

I've never been into viewing large collections of things in museums, not even musical instruments - but I do have an appreciation for organ music in beautiful old churches. The king of instruments, the organ, is perhaps the premier example of the great early keyboards. There are staggering examples of medieval and renaissance instruments in Italy, Germany, Netherlands etc.

Medieval Craftsmanship anyone...

Our modern high quality instruments are a living example of the human ability to continually improve, invent and re-invent music in so many ways.

I guess this is one of those times we can 'agree to disagree.' By and large the pursuit of excellence and outstanding quality is not something I see a lot of these days in musical instrument production. Our technological age seems to deliver flimsy products (Korg Fisa Suprema), or backwards steps (Beltuna Matrix with battery power solenoids), or 'style over substance' with Brandoni's KeyBra...

Come on Brandoni, go back to the the old ways of trying to make better sounding accordions instead of this keyboard 'art'.

KeyBra – Patented Technology

www.keybra.it

 

[JerryPH]

I guess this is one of those times we can 'agree to disagree.' By and large the pursuit of excellence and outstanding quality is not something I see a lot of these days in musical instrument production. Our technological age seems to deliver flimsy products (Korg Fisa Suprema), or backwards steps (Beltuna Matrix with battery power solenoids), or 'style over substance' with Brandoni's KeyBra...

... or the huge step back that the modern Gola is when compared to the ones from the past, or the planned obsolesence integrated on purpose into modern washers and dryers.

In some very few cases, that is not true, but for the majority, it unfortunately is.

 

[Tom]

My pal Jerry could never be boring! For the last few years we've been able to walk here on this dusty forum byway, yappin' about stuff - agreeing and disagreeing, and agreeing to disagree. Same with other greats like Saundersbp, Tom, Dingo40, Ffingers, Ventura. losthobos, DeBra to name just a few. There's always something to learn here.

I love the accordion and am slowly growing in appreciation for the piano but I think there are going to be other treasures to uncover further down the road. I'm not sure if I'll ever make it to the exhibits in the Saltzburg museum, but who knows!


I've never been into viewing large collections of things in museums, not even musical instruments - but I do have an appreciation for organ music in beautiful old churches. The king of instruments, the organ, is perhaps the premier example of the great early keyboards. There are staggering examples of medieval and renaissance instruments in Italy, Germany, Netherlands etc.

Medieval Craftsmanship anyone...







I guess this is one of those times we can 'agree to disagree.' By and large the pursuit of excellence and outstanding quality is not something I see a lot of these days in musical instrument production. Our technological age seems to deliver flimsy products (Korg Fisa Suprema), or backwards steps (Beltuna Matrix with battery power solenoids), or 'style over substance' with Brandoni's KeyBra...

Come on Brandoni, go back to the the old ways of trying to make better sounding accordions instead of this keyboard 'art'.

KeyBra – Patented Technology

www.keybra.it

Good points! Fortunately it does not cost any more to make better music with the tools one has. Hard work and inspiration, yes. As long as people keep on keeping on we’ll be ok.

 

[Zvon]

... or the huge step back that the modern Gola is when compared to the ones from the past, or the planned obsolesence integrated on purpose into modern washers and dryers.

In some very few cases, that is not true, but for the majority, it unfortunately is.

Indeed, flimsy products and planned obsolesence have more to do with corporate greed than with poor technology. But with objects like traditional accordions, there may be not enough skilled craftmen, or the knowledge required may have diminished.

 

[John M]

. . .planned obsolesence integrated on purpose into modern washers and dryers.

Still have our original Maytag washer & dryer we bought 45 years go. Washer/Dryer used once a week -- Still working and went through 3 kids. The only repair was to replace the washer tub support mounts. AND, our model has the "Suds saver" feature.
Remember the "Maytag Repairman" that was on TV, with nothing to do?

 

[saundersbp]

An interesting topic, but how many keyboard players of classical music of the earlier years have actually tried to play on the kind of instruments that those brilliant composers did their creating upon?
They deserve great credit if only for enduring the questionable accoustic quality of many of them.

Well Ffingers, I don't know much about the quality of early keyboards (though I'm quite sure the very best ones would have been exquisite) what I do know is that there was so much high quality music composed long before the invention of the piano (early 1700s) that a person could, if he or she so wished, choose not to play a single piano piece their entire life and never be wanting for amazing music - the renaissance and early baroque periods gave such an abundant harvest

As an organist I have often played some superb instruments made in the 18th century, especially in Italy and France. Modern organs struggle to come anywhere close, not through material issues but because of human time constraints. When labour was cheaper vs materials, a single rank of pipes could be voiced and reworked over a number of months or even years; for new pipe organs you've got to do the voicing in a couple of days for each rank otherwise it gets too expensive.

For me, learning music has involved small progressions and additions... Stradella bass PA Quint free bass PA Piano ?

My own strange journey has been piano harmonium organ drum kit free bass accordion and kept organ too. The thing is you learn so much by playing different instruments even at different levels to your main instrument.

 

[debra]

@debra was talking about acoustic pianos as far as I understand. Digital pianos are a different category, with different mechanics and different sound, both for direct recording and acoustically.

I was talking about acoustic pianos indeed, but digital pianos are sometimes quite similar. Most modern digital pianos use sound sampled from acoustic grand pianos. About 20 years ago I visited the Frankfurter Musikmesse, and when we were done checking out all the accordions we moved to a hall with pianos. What I remember quite well is that I tried a Kawai digital piano (with headphones) and didn't like how it sounded. Then I tried a Kawai grand piano that was essentially sitting next to it and I found that it sounded a lot like the digital one. I didn't like it any better. I do like how Yamaha grand pianos sound, and Yamaha has copied that sound very well in their digital pianos. I'm very happy with my Yamaha CP-5 stage piano. But how it really sounds depends a lot on the headphones or speaker system used. The sound equipment makes it hard to compare digital pianos in a fair way. And the same holds for recordings of acoustic pianos.
As a piano student I was fortunate to play many different pianos (upright and grand pianos), including Kawai, Yamaha, Steinway, Bechstein, Bösendorfer, etc. Sure, the room or concert hall also affects the sound, but as a player you're close enough to the instruments to gauge some differences in their sounds. I liked Yamaha and Steinway, but it's too many decades ago to have a detailed recollection of what I heard back then.

 

[Ventura]

Remember the "Maytag Repairman" that was on TV, with nothing to do?

yep.. forget his name but i think they picked him because
he was in that TV show "the life of Riley" which the famous
closing shot was the big guy leaning back in his
Castro-Convertible with a satisfied smile on his face

(like so many of our old, hard working Uncles, who
loved to have us kids around, but once they pushed the
lounger back and their feet were up, time to hush up
or go outside and play)

 

[Ventura]

What I remember quite well is that I tried a Kawai digital piano (with headphones) and didn't like how it sounded. Then I tried a Kawai grand piano that was essentially sitting next to it and I found that it sounded a lot like the digital one. I didn't like it any better. I do like how Yamaha grand pianos sound

the Yamaha sound is very useful, and was overall the "winner"
in studio digital use, supplanting the Roland rack unit that was
at one time literally everywhere in the modern Studio's who
used MIDI to set up arrangements and score shows

think of that mouse movie.. the famous song..that's the Yamaha..
VERY sine-wave very pretty very easy to integrate

the waveform of the Kawai is complex by comparison, and yes
was a great representation of their own Grand Piano

Baldwin was brighter, Steinway was crystal clear with tremendous power,
but neither had the resources to truly model their own Piano's digitally,
nor did they want to compete in the digital realm
(hence, piano salesmen would infer "this one sounds just like a...."
but to claim it was sampled off a Steinway they would have had to
acquire the rights

 

[Ffingers]

I love the interactions here as always.
Re. the modern accordion vs the outstanding classics of the past ( and similar eferences to planned obsolescence ) who amongst us would be prepared to pay for the expertise and man-hours involved in their creation?
Most folk want cheap and easily available, not the cost in time and money of extended consultations, experimentation to achieve a particular objective, and the search for the best materials with which to utilise them.

 

[debra]

...
Most folk want cheap and easily available, not the cost in time and money of extended consultations, experimentation to achieve a particular objective, and the search for the best materials with which to utilise them.

You are right, and it all comes down to priorities. I see people living in fairly simple houses but driving large expensive cars, and others in a area with very nice houses but driving relatively inexpensive and smaller cars. And such choices are also seen in music and certainly accordions: some people enjoy playing the accordion but have bought a relatively inexpensive instrument 30 to 50 years ago and continue playing it (and often without it ever getting any maintenance and tuning). From their house and car it's clear they could afford a better instrument, but feel no need to. Other people keep higher-end accordions that are relatively young (from new up to no more than say 25 years) and also spend money on maintenance and tuning. And it isn't clear from how they live or drive that they can more easily afford to do so. It's all about priorities.