What is the best keyboard arranger……

[Tom]

Look at the first 3 seconds.

Ok, thanks Dak, I see it. Another case of semantics. By “Demo” I’d like to see someone explaining the connection, setup and configuration. But you win! Come on over!

 

[dak]

Ok, thanks Dak, I see it. Another case of semantics. By “Demo” I’d like to see someone explaining the connection, setup and configuration. But you win! Come on over!

You mean, more like

?

 

[Tom]

Getting closer……

 

[JerryPH]

This is the real question! In fact I can’t find ANY videos of a keyboard arranger being demoed driven by a midi accordion or other midi instrument. Maybe there is NO USE CASE. Maybe people who play accordions don’t care about having a keyboard on their arranger or people who play keyboard arrangers don’t care about playing a midi instrument. (Although I believe we have seen this done by “keymn”.).

My 2 cents... I am *sure* we've seen someone use a keyboard arranger, right? If not look at the video that I posted above. A keyboard player uses 2 hands on the keyboard to play AND has 2 hands to control the unit's controls just a few inches above.

An accordionist has the left hand tied down under the bass strap in a vertical position and the right hand trying to make music on a vertical keyboard, neither of which can be made to be anywhere close to being "comfortably close" to the controls of the arranger unless it is in between songs when they are not playing, which is why the best arrangers for accordionists are ones that have no keyboard, are small and are relatively easy to use. Arrangers like the Ketron X4, Audiya, BK7m, etc... all share those traits and those are the ones that you will see used by accordionists.

If you just happen to see a keyboard arranger used by an accordionist (Hi Larry! ), you are going to see someone that plays the keyboard as well. Is this a skill that many accordionists have? Not me, and I have no desire to learn to play piano, I am challenged enough trying to play my squeezebox... lol. But if you *want* to go that way, then why play the accordion? At that point, I think it's best to invest time and money in to a keyboard and put the accordion away... because pretty much all the sounds you make on your digital accordion can be made on that keyboard.

EDIT: Had to add: "How to play MIDI accordion.... STEP 1, use an ACOUSTIC accordion with NO MIDI CAPABILITIES"
Anyone else see the humor/irony of that statement??

 

[Tom]

My 2 cents... I am *sure* we've seen someone use a keyboard arranger, right? If not look at the video that I posted above. A keyboard player uses 2 hands on the keyboard to play AND has 2 hands to control the unit's controls just a few inches above.

An accordionist has the left hand tied down under the bass strap in a vertical position and the right hand trying to make music on a vertical keyboard, neither of which can be made to be anywhere close to being "comfortably close" to the controls of the arranger unless it is in between songs when they are not playing, which is why the best arrangers for accordionists are ones that have no keyboard, are small and are relatively easy to use. Arrangers like the Ketron X4, Audiya, BK7m, etc... all share those traits and those are the ones that you will see used by accordionists.

If you just happen to see a keyboard arranger used by an accordionist (Hi Larry! ), you are going to see someone that plays the keyboard as well. Is this a skill that many accordionists have? Not me, and I have no desire to learn to play piano, I am challenged enough trying to play my squeezebox... lol. But if you *want* to go that way, then why play the accordion? At that point, I think it's best to invest time and money in to a keyboard and put the accordion away... because pretty much all the sounds you make on your digital accordion can be made on that keyboard.

EDIT: Had to add: "How to play MIDI accordion.... STEP 1, use an ACOUSTIC accordion with NO MIDI CAPABILITIES"
Anyone else see the humor/irony of that statement??

Thanks Jerry! Yeah, but what I’m looking for is an actual demo of the system (although I agree he seems to be doing it). Look, we are frickin’ spoiled when it comes to demo videos in Roland accordion world (some PH guy has set the bar quite high). That’s what I’m looking for.

I see no conflict with playing both keyboard and accordion. Like some days I want to play guitar with my friends, not guitar sounds on my accordion.

Again, my original goal was to kill two birds with one stone. Rather than spend $500 on an arranger, another $200 on a nice keyboard. I gave my keyboard to a friend’s son after the tornado blew her house off the foundation and I miss it (the keyboard, not the house).

 

[JerryPH]

Give me a little better idea, what is it that you are looking for... an accordionist using an arranger?

 

[Ventura]

trick question :

why does Rick Wakeman take more than one keyboard on a Gig ?

why not

in a way this hands stuck in the strap and facing the other way argument
made me smile as i reached over in real time to grab a handfull of By God
Drawbars and ramp up my sound for "Rush" using the FR4 as a contoller

why not

hey Tom, part of the arranger keyboards and such is they follow a long term
philisophy, so some of us will naturally gravitate to a Korg product,
some the Yamaha, etc. It might help if you can mess with some
(time permitting) unless you find something so cheap you can always get rid of it.

anyhow, you were gonna drift by someday and pick up that parts Panordion,
i can also loan you long term a 61 key Korg arranger (floppy disk era) to mess
with.. it is modern enough to support full keyboard chord autosensing and
has the million drum tracks and accompaniments from the i5 series inside
and lots of front panel controls and awesome Piano's.. no speakers though, it is
a pro series unit

the i3 replaced it basically.. i was still using it in the studio last year

 

[Tom]

Give me a little better idea, what is it that you are looking for... an accordionist using an arranger?

Someone explaining the connection setup, ie.

“This is the xxxxx keyboard arranger for xxxx dollars. It has xxxx styles which you can/cannot edit and download additional ones. Here are some of the styles. It uses a midi to midi/usb in the arranger. You use this button/command to identify the midi chord channel / it has a wizard that works like this. Watch how I plug it in and start the style. Etc.”

 

[Tom]

trick question :

why does Rick Wakeman take more than one keyboard on a Gig ?

why not

in a way this hands stuck in the strap and facing the other way argument
made me smile as i reached over in real time to grab a handfull of By God
Drawbars and ramp up my sound for "Rush" using the FR4 as a contoller

why not

hey Tom, part of the arranger keyboards and such is they follow a long term
philisophy, so some of us will naturally gravitate to a Korg product,
some the Yamaha, etc. It might help if you can mess with some
(time permitting) unless you find something so cheap you can always get rid of it.

anyhow, you were gonna drift by someday and pick up that parts Panordion,
i can also loan you long term a 61 key Korg arranger (floppy disk era) to mess
with.. it is modern enough to support full keyboard chord autosensing and
has the million drum tracks and accompaniments from the i5 series inside
and lots of front panel controls and awesome Piano's.. no speakers though, it is
a pro series unit

the i3 replaced it basically.. i was still using it in the studio last year

Thanks Ventura! Unfortunately I haven’t made it out to the east coast since covid in order to come visit your studio. . Some day, thanks so much for the offer.

 

[dak]

Someone explaining the connection setup, ie.

“This is the xxxxx keyboard arranger for xxxx dollars. It has xxxx styles which you can/cannot edit and download additional ones. Here are some of the styles. It uses a midi to midi/usb in the arranger. You use this button/command to identify the midi chord channel / it has a wizard that works like this. Watch how I plug it in and start the style. Etc.”

Well, I can produce something like that for the old Solton arrangers. But for those you can plain forget about "You use this button/command to identify the midi chord channel / it has a wizard that works like this". They don't identify a thing. It's trial and error if you are missing the docs for your MIDI instrument.

 

[JerryPH]

Someone explaining the connection setup, ie.

“This is the xxxxx keyboard arranger for xxxx dollars. It has xxxx styles which you can/cannot edit and download additional ones. Here are some of the styles. It uses a midi to midi/usb in the arranger. You use this button/command to identify the midi chord channel / it has a wizard that works like this. Watch how I plug it in and start the style. Etc.”

Here you go. If this doesn't simplify things enough for you, we have to talk... lol


I did not do the other parts such as "This is the xxxxx keyboard arranger for xxxx dollars. It has xxxx styles which you can/cannot edit and download additional ones. Here are some of the styles" because this is specific and different for EVERY arranger and the video would need to be 500 hours long to cover 10% of the choices out there... lol (this one already took me 3 hours to assemble for you). I have to leave you do SOME of the research, right?

 

[Tom]

Here you go. If this doesn't simplify things enough for you, we have to talk... lol


I did not do the other parts such as "This is the xxxxx keyboard arranger for xxxx dollars. It has xxxx styles which you can/cannot edit and download additional ones. Here are some of the styles" because this is specific and different for EVERY arranger and the video would need to be 500 hours long to cover 10% of the choices out there... lol (this one already took me 3 hours to assemble for you). I have to leave you do SOME of the research, right?

Wow, thanks so much Jerry!!! Great explanation of how to set up these arrangers and why the “regular” arranger is a better choice than the keyboard arranger due to size. You’re the best!

 

[Rosie C]

One question... do arrangers play out to their own tempo and you play along (not so useful for me) or can they follow input from a human and play along (super useful, would need to buy one!) ?

Hi Rosie, the ones we’re looking at run at a fixed speed, but follow your chords.

Answering my own question a couple of week later. It seems that the "Ableton Live" software package does what I want - "Ableton Live listens to and adjusts its tempo based on incoming audio in real time, making it a dynamic part of the band instead of the tempo source that everyone has to follow." though whether I want to be the sort of musician who has a laptop on stage is another matter, at least I know it is possible.