What converter piano accordion should I buy?

[Hutzpah]

Could someone please advise me on some make models
of the older/second hand converter piano accordion?

I think I might try and buy another accordion.
After starting to play my Hohner Lucia 2 I decided it would
be good to compose some accordion pieces on Musescore to play.
However, the bass side of my (HL2) is not practical to play.

I need the right side keyboard turned up side down and put on the left side.
The bass notes ordered like a piano is what I’m after.
Not too big as I only play folk.

What should I do?

 

[Ventura]

i guess you simply research the various freebass
layouts first, look them over to see which one
is closest to "The bass notes ordered like a piano"

you can do this by going through old discussions where
people posted charts of different bass layouts

you can also download pretty much ANY Roland V-Accordion
owners manual and look at the section on choosing a
Bass layout,, they have nice graphics with the buttons and notes

with that info you can decide for yourself which ones might
suit you.. but practically speaking, well, you are stuck with
whatever is handy in New Zealand that you can drive to, right ?
or are you willing to go to Australia for one ? there were a
LOT of Titano's imported into Australia and no doubt there
are some Quints at least floating around

or you could buy a used V-Accordion for your second box
since they all have a bunch of freebass settings to choose from
and try

or you could buy two cheap Chinese boxes and throw the bass
sections away and pin the 2 keyboards together on opposite
sides of the bellows and see how that works for ya'

 

[Henry D]

I would think this is what you imagine.

These are quite rare, hence quite pricey. They turned out to look like they ought to be great for free bass but in practice they turned out to be really awkward. Circa 1931-36.

Interesting devils nonetheless.

https://www.smythesaccordioncenter.com/the-accordion-blog/the-luttbeg-accordion has more info.

 

[EdBouchard]

Could someone please advise me on some make models
of the older/second hand converter piano accordion?

I think I might try and buy another accordion.
After starting to play my Hohner Lucia 2 I decided it would
be good to compose some accordion pieces on Musescore to play.
However, the bass side of my (HL2) is not practical to play.

I need the right side keyboard turned up side down and put on the left side.
The bass notes ordered like a piano is what I’m after.
Not too big as I only play folk.

What should I do?

Back in the late 1950s or so, Vince Geraci had Bell Accordion custom make a bass section for his extended keyboard piano accordion that had a bass side with a two-tiered piano-like keyboard. Each key was about 2 inches long. There was an attached fingerless mitt for your left hand attached to the instrument on a slide. So your fingers were always in place to depress the keys needed to play what was on the sheet music.
Pretty sure only one was made. Not sure where it is now. Vince passed some decades ago.
It was unwieldy to play. A more available choice with near the range of a the lower half of a piano would be either a B-system or C-system free bass. They are rare too, but at least still being made. You might find a quality used one. If not that, Roland and Kori make electric accordions in which the bass side can be converted to either B- or C-system. They are mirror opposites of each other. Structurally play chords, scales, arpeggios, etc. is the same. B-system is common in Russia and nearby nations. C-system is more common in France, Germany, and the like.
While it will require learning a new keyboard, it’ll be worth it in the end. In the hands of someone who can play at least 90 percent of JS Bach’s compositions for keyboard sound wonderful on it,
You can also play shell and rootless voicings, a la say Bill Evans. Of course the tonality is totally different from piano. There are other free bass systems, but a B- or C-system free bass is nearly a 54 note (4-1/2 octave) range down the just below the open E string on a double bass.

 

[Walker]

The bass notes ordered like a piano is what I’m after.
Not too big as I only play folk.

What should I do?

Hi there,

If you are looking for a converter system with the flow of notes most closely resembling the direction of travel as piano, with semitone increments, the bass system you require is called Bayan, also known as 'inverted B system'.

As for brands, Titano would be very well known in New Zealand. I'm sure they won't all be Quint converters, so a nice Bayan bass would be cool. As a piano accordionist, if I didn't play Quint converter, Bayan bass would likely be my next choice.​

 

[saundersbp]

The bass notes ordered like a piano is what I’m after.
Not too big as I only play folk.

Hi - agree with the previous post - a chromatic bass is the one to go for. I used to use stradella for playing folk but nowadays use the lighter texture of freebass. If you are playing with other people, especially guitarists, they will thank you!

 

[Walker]

Y'know, one of the interesting things about the pianoforte (and this applies to the bayan with inverted B system bass, with low notes near the floor) is that when playing diatonic scales in parallel motion the fingers of each hand play opposite patterns; RH 12312345 LH: 54321321. I always find that to feel a little 'odd' when practising a piano scale, but it 'is what it is'. Bayan will have this same 'feel' too.

Now, I would politely suggest chromatic button accordion left hand system is always better when paired with chromatic button accordion right hand. Piano right hand will, in reality, never truly correspond to any 'chromatic' (minor 3rd) left hand bass because it is simply comparing 'apples and pears'. Remember piano keyboard was originally developed on the medieval system of modes, whereas chromatic button keyboards are... isomorphic. So if you want that pianoforte feel, I suggest inverted B system bass is far from perfect, but it's as near as you're gonna get.

However, if you want to find the more balanced and single approach to isomorphics; I'd suggest 'full' CBA is the better option.

I'd also suggest that when the left and right hand keyboards are a 'mirror image' like C system button accordion with C system converter (not bayan), this allows for more natural feeling parallel motion phrases and scales etc as both hands play using the same* finger pattern.

In summation, for the full piano(ish) vibe, go bayan left hand, or for the more balanced single system approach, choose full CBA. I prefer the mirror image route (C system) in this scenario.

Note: *the fingering won't always be identical due to bass strap and accordion design constraints, but it gets an 8.5/10, so still an 'A' pass.​