Want to talk about accordion?

[Joakim Monsen]

Hi everyone!

I’m thinking of working as an accordion coach, and of course I want to be sure
about everything, which is why I’m asking you as somebody who is struggling or are a beginner accordionist.

It is about 15-20 min talk/interview where I ask you some question about accordion.

Really appreciate all and everything I can get from this post.

 

[saundersbp]

I'm happy to do an interview

 

[Ffingers]

I'm happy to do an interview

Me, too - though I am a very-late-in-life beginner whose current music teacher proclaims that I am asking far too much of myself in regard to my rate of progress.

 

[Tom]

I’m in!

 

[JerryPH]

Perhaps you would like to start with what you feel qualifies you as a "coach"? That always will either pull in people or push some people that you may not want to work with.

 

[Joakim Monsen]

Perhaps you would like to start with what you feel qualifies you as a "coach"? That always will either pull in people or push some people that you may not want to work with.

Not sure if I understood what to ment, could you explain more?

 

[Tom]

I remember back in the day Grayson Masefield offered a free 30 minute lesson in exchange for the interview. It was cool to meet one of the stars of accordion and I really learned a lot in a short time.

 

[JerryPH]

Not sure if I understood what to ment, could you explain more?

Sorry if I was not clear. Please explain to the users here why you are qualified to help coach accordionists. People knowing your qualifications will feel more comfortable learning from someone with experience and ability.

I remember back in the day Grayson Masefield offered a free 30 minute lesson in exchange for the interview. It was cool to meet one of the stars of accordion and I really learned a lot in a short time.

He was super nice and is a true icon in the industry, I had fun with the questions. Not surprisingly, he did not find much he could teach me... lol

 

[dak]

He was super nice and is a true icon in the industry, I had fun with the questions. Not surprisingly, he did not find much he could teach me... lol

Water under the bridge, but at your skill level it would have likely been best use of both of your times if you had let him look over some current project or "firmly established" repertoire piece and see whether he was able to pick out points where he could make suggestions. Even the best musicians have their attention and overview and imagination tied down several notches by having to actually play the instrument. Another mind free to roam (and not tied into how a piece arrived where it is) might still be an improvement. Also there are sometimes "I know what you've been thinking here, but it doesn't really work/fly" elements that you need someone else to tell you. And with a visiting teacher, you can have the luxury of staunchly defending your choices to their face while still ultimately amending them without having to feel silly.

 

[Joakim Monsen]

Sorry if I was not clear. Please explain to the users here why you are qualified to help coach accordionists. People knowing your qualifications will feel more comfortable learning from someone with experience and ability.


He was super nice and is a true icon in the industry, I had fun with the questions. Not surprisingly, he did not find much he could teach me... lol

Ok, good point. I understand, thanks for the tip

 

[Joakim Monsen]

Here's the questions for those who want to write some answers here in the thread or discuss the problems.


Problem 1: I found out that fingering can be quite a problem for beginner accordion players.

Would you agree to that?

If YES: What bothers you the most about that?

If NO: Since this doesn’t appear to be a problem for you, how did you solve it for yourself?


Problem 2: Bass-side difficulties
Examples: how to play the basses, alternate basses, muscle memory, knowing where the basses are and how far to jump etc.

Just like problem one, repeat the same prosess with the «if yes» or «if no» questions for this and the rest of the problems.


Problem 3: Right and left-side coordination
Examples: how to play the melody with the bass, hard to focus on both sides at the same time etc.


Problem 4: Learning the accordion
Examples: finding resources, learning material, instructions online etc.


Problem 5: Not looking at the instrument while playing
This one is quite self explanatory.


That’s it for the problems!

 

[Rosie C]

Problem 1: I found out that fingering can be quite a problem for beginner accordion players.

R/H - no, I play piano, which is part of the reason I chose PA over melodion. I was playing tunes on the accordion immediately. The only problem I've had that I've struggled to resolve is owning accordions with different width keys which throws off my muscle memory. Resolved so far only by sticking to one instrument if I have a performance coming up.

L/H - definitely harder than R/H. I have a fairly decent music theory background, so I was happy when I realised the stradella is in circle of fifths - and most of the tunes I play are based on 1-4-5 chords. That said, while I'm reasonable on the buttons for C & C major, G & G major, D & D major, A & A major and Em and Bm are OK. Most of the rest of the button board is unchartered territory for me. That's coming to bit me now when I'd like to perform a couple of Christmas tunes with more complex chord progressions.

Problem 2: Bass-side difficulties

I think the main one is hand location - I tend to lose my place when jumping around. I've stuck a piece of velcro on the C fundamental, B and Bm buttons which helps. Someone else mentioned guitar callouses stop them feeling the buttons, that's problem for me too.

Problem 3: Right and left-side coordination

Not a problem.

Problem 4: Learning the accordion

I found many tutorial books, enough to keep me busy. I failed to find a face-to-face teacher though, and while I tried Zoom lessons it didn't work for me.

Problem 5: Not looking at the instrument while playing

Not a problem. Maybe because I'm used to playing piano by touch, and double bass by ear without looking.

 

[Tom]

Nice meeting you, Joakim and I wish you great success with your accordion coaching career!

Problem 1: I found out that fingering can be quite a problem for beginner accordion players.

Would you agree to that?

Yes, even though I consider myself an intermediate player, fingering can still be quite a problem, especially when sight reading new or not yet familiar music. I have the most problem when I have to move my right hand a significant distance on the piano keyboard. Generally, for songs I continue to play, I organically discover a fingering through repeated plays, and will sometimes note it in the sheet music for next time.


Problem 2: Bass-side difficulties
Examples: how to play the basses, alternate basses, muscle memory, knowing where the basses are and how far to jump etc.

As above, big jumps are an issue. Practicing them helps.


Problem 3: Right and left-side coordination
Examples: how to play the melody with the bass, hard to focus on both sides at the same time etc.

It’s sometimes difficult to coordinate the bass and treble when there is a syncopated rhythm in either hand, like in Take Five, or forró music.

Problem 4: Learning the accordion
Examples: finding resources, learning material, instructions online etc.

The problem here is that I am my own worst enemy. I know what needs to be done but I don’t do it which is to nail the fundamentals. Scales, arpeggios, speed, accuracy, etc. Also I am a slow tune learner so it takes a long time to internalize a new challenging tune.

There are good online tutors out there but they are expensive, as they should be. I would benefit greatly if I were to take a one hour per week private lesson but this is beyond my budget at this time.

To resolve this, I have had some success with group lessons, and seek out tips and tricks from recorded YouTube lessons. There are some good ones, but not the same as a good teacher responding to someone’s playing.

Problem 5: Not looking at the instrument while playing
This one is quite self explanatory.

I do look sometimes when I need those big jumps in the treble, but don’t consider this a problem as I play mostly from memory, and can still maintain decent eye contact.

 

[dak]

Here's the questions for those who want to write some answers here in the thread or discuss the problems.


Problem 1: I found out that fingering can be quite a problem for beginner accordion players.

Would you agree to that?

If YES: What bothers you the most about that?

If NO: Since this doesn’t appear to be a problem for you, how did you solve it for yourself?

My "standard" fingering problem (CBA player, but I'd imagine it to be similar for PA) is that I miss opportunities for regrouping on repeated notes/phrases. Like playing

C D E D C D E C D E F E D E F D E F G F E F G ...

and running out of fingers instead of bringing them up when they are no longer needed below (or vice versa). Say, like

C D E D C D E C D E F E D E F D E F G F E F G ...
1 2 3 2 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 3 1 2 3

The temptation to continue using the same finger for a note that you have used previously is pretty big. And it's wasting an opportunity for avoiding more drastic changes. It's actually a problem I even encounter similarly playing the violin: hiding position changes in runs with short reversals by reversing to the index finger instead of the finger you used previous to the reversal.

 

[Joakim Monsen]

Problem 1: I found out that fingering can be quite a problem for beginner accordion players.

R/H - no, I play piano, which is part of the reason I chose PA over melodion. I was playing tunes on the accordion immediately. The only problem I've had that I've struggled to resolve is owning accordions with different width keys which throws off my muscle memory. Resolved so far only by sticking to one instrument if I have a performance coming up.

L/H - definitely harder than R/H. I have a fairly decent music theory background, so I was happy when I realised the stradella is in circle of fifths - and most of the tunes I play are based on 1-4-5 chords. That said, while I'm reasonable on the buttons for C & C major, G & G major, D & D major, A & A major and Em and Bm are OK. Most of the rest of the button board is unchartered territory for me. That's coming to bit me now when I'd like to perform a couple of Christmas tunes with more complex chord progressions.

Problem 2: Bass-side difficulties

I think the main one is hand location - I tend to lose my place when jumping around. I've stuck a piece of velcro on the C fundamental, B and Bm buttons which helps. Someone else mentioned guitar callouses stop them feeling the buttons, that's problem for me too.

Problem 3: Right and left-side coordination

Not a problem.

Problem 4: Learning the accordion

I found many tutorial books, enough to keep me busy. I failed to find a face-to-face teacher though, and while I tried Zoom lessons it didn't work for me.

Problem 5: Not looking at the instrument while playing

Not a problem. Maybe because I'm used to playing piano by touch, and double bass by ear without looking.

On problem 3, how did you solve this?

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Joakim, I’m curious about your background and why you want to be an accordion coach. What makes me curious is that over the course of many years I’ve met hundreds of people involved in teaching accordion and other instruments to a wide range of people. Those teachers include:

1. People who play accordion professionally but have no training as teachers. Some of these are natural teachers, some aren’t.

2. People who play other instruments and assume that accordion is “close enough” to what they play, so they can teach accordion as well. Some have teacher training, some don’t, and again, some without formal teacher training are natural teachers and some aren’t.

3. A man who plays accordion professionally but has no teacher training. He seeks out adult students who played accordion in their childhood. He assumes that those students can still read music, so he scribbles out five songs on staff paper, lead-sheet style, with no regard to degrees of difficulty. He doesn’t concentrate on technique, or theory, or any of the skills you mentioned in your quiz.

4. A professional accordionist who only works with advanced students and provides “finishing studies.”

5. A professional accordionist who’s formal education never went beyond high school. However, he is a natural teacher who studied arranging, music copying, and recording engineering — all privately. He will take on any student who seeks him out. Although accordion is his primary instrument, he taught himself piano and now teaches that, as well.

6. A professional trumpet player who has a degree in music education. He owns a music store, and is a trained brass and woodwind repairer. He is the band coach for a high school, he rents band instruments and stringed instruments to schools. He sells brass, woodwind, stringed instruments, guitars and electronic keyboards. He employs teachers for those instruments to teach in his store. He also teaches trumpet to adults. He’s the leader and arranger for a big band. He has a friend who’s a professional accordionist but neither he nor his friend have any interest in teaching accordion.

In addition to having taken accordion lessons, I’m a retired reacher. I worked both in the classroom and, for the majority of my career as a teacher of the homebound. As such, I worked with children in their homes. These children and adolescents had a wide variety of medical conditions that kept them unable to attend school. I taught all grades, and many subjects. My training went through a Masters degree in Education and many Special Education courses as well.

 

[Rosie C]

On problem 3, how did you solve this?

It's not as much that I solved it, as I've not found it a problem. I have nearly 50 years of playing piano behind me, and I also play double bass, I think a combination of those two things - separate hands from piano, and "root-5" bass lines from bass help me approach the accordion.

 

[JerryPH]

I'm 63 years old, I've played accordion starting from a very young age (started taking private lessons at age 4). I've been fortunate that I have had some incredible instructors in my life who's lineage went to people like Magnante, Nunzio and Macerollo (and yes, I stopped a long time, just like many, before I returned), but my entire life I have had a predisposition of being someone that could take complex topics and break them down in to a usable understandable format to anyone, young or old, beginner or expert. I've used that even when my job as a sales person had nothing to do with teaching. During my time as an 18 year old computer sales person I never sold by making sales presentations and pushing, but by learning what the client needed and educating them to the benefits of computer networks did for them. Within 2 months, I was the top sales person in my company, and in the 80's, if you sold for 7 digits a year, you were good, My first year I sold 4 times more than the best salesperson there.

I later moved to becoming an instructor in the computer industry, then moved to becoming a certified instructor and then pushed to move up to certifications in 15-20 categories/companies like IBM, Novell, Microsoft, LINUX, CompTIA, CISCO, etc... I taught all ages from 15 to 60+ year old people that came in to my classrooms, and I continually refined my educational techniques. I expanded to (by necessity) how to deal with difficult younger and older students, corporate students and even military and government students.

During the first 25 years of music education, I learned that I did things a little differently from other students. Other students, I saw took the instruction, mastered it to whatever level they could and moved on. I did that too, of course, but also analyzed my teachers and myself, I saw where they excelled, where they failed. While others watched a music performance, I analyzed and dissected it. I did not know that everyone did not do it this way, until I started talking to them, and they would give me that tilted-head "are you nuts?" kinda look... lol

Turns out I was a world class educator, I loved to teach (I was the #1 highest rated Microsoft Certified Instructor in the world for 5 years straight and top 3 for 11 years straight... based all on the evaluations of the people in my classrooms. I have 25+ years experience as a professional photographer and my client list included some of the top military and political names and many well known celebrities' in Canada from the 70's-90's and I had given many private courses to many well known photographers and then ventured in to online YouTube instructional videos and made the best, to date, technical educational video on YouTube for a specific wireless camera trigger just because I did things with them that no one else consistently did and everyone asked me how I did it, and just so many more things in that direction), BUT... I just hated to teach music and more so, the accordion. I found that I had (incorrectly, I know), very little patience for students that were not ready to invest the time and effort that I did and it frustrated me no end.

That made me a young BAD music teacher. Of course I know not everyone (at the time) was ready to invest 6-12 hours a day 7 days a week, but if I had to, my adolescent mind at the time expected others to do that too.

I state all this because it just explains how I am, and that I have 2 major pet peeves in life, the first one is not related here, but the other is competence, more specifically, lack of it, when educating. I worked my ASS off to be the best I could be and when I see someone that's sadly ill equipped or has no REAL experience or knowledge trying to teach, it makes my teeth itch... LOL.

Want to teach? Want to coach?
No problem, EARN that right, PAY your dues. Tell us what gives you this privilege, because there are way too many people around spreading BS, trying to make some money and hurting more people than they help... but hey, that's just me. I cannot change that in the world, so I sit back, chuckle at these people and scratch my itching teeth... LOL!

 

[dak]

Jerry, one thing to recognize is that the task of a teacher is to move forward a student and do it in a manner where the student's desire to continue is retained. At various skill levels this puts different demands to the educative skills and playing skills and knowledge of the teacher. In a similar way, the demands on the instrument vary over one's course. I've heard it said that to judge a teacher's qualities, you don't listen to them play but to their students. But that still doesn't tell you how many of the students chose to drop out rather than continue. There will almost never be a teacher who has the skills and piatience and insight to accompany someone from the start of their learning to their retirement.

The important thing is to have the ability to recognize when it is time for a student to move on and prepare them for that move as best as possible.

There is also that thing in arts that being scientifically right is only very loosely connected with being successful. For example, in singing there is lots of knowledge phrased in terms of sensations, using support, singing from the mask, connecting to the abdomen and so on. Anatomically, most of that lore is absurd and hogwash, but phrasing this in terms of anatomically correct terms rather than what it feels like is no help to the student and at best of very limited help to the teacher. Of course it comes in with a vengeance when diagnosing ailments affecting the voice.

I applaud your dedication, but like with students, teachers have to start somewhere.

 

[Tom]

Jerry, you’re on a different planet than most of us. I respect all you have done but will never have the dedication to achieve these results. I’ve also taught a lot in my life both as paid and volunteer. It’s so much about understanding the student and figuring out how to provide motivation, success and focus, imho. I’ve had both excellent and terrible accordion teachers, and learn d something from all, either about accordion playing, or teaching, or life. Seems like Joakim is researching how to improve his coaching and I wish him huge success!