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Virtuosi in Conference

Ffingers

Ffingers

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Noa Kageyama Conversing with Michael Bridge for almost an hour:

bulletproofmusician.com

Michael Bridge: On Cultivating Expressive (vs Impressive) Virtuosity

When you think of classical music, what instruments come to mind? An orchestral instrument of some kind, like strings, woodwinds, brass, or percussion? Maybe piano? Voice? Or guitar?Would accordion make your list?
bulletproofmusician.com bulletproofmusician.com


Even as a beginner in music, and accordion specifically, I found this discussion totally engrossing.
 
Thanks Fingers, this is very interesting. We have talked many times about virtuosity versus expression and Michael Bridge sums it up quite well:


“[00:20:40] Michael BRIDGE: I'd love to. As I was preparing and writing my thesis, I was trying to articulate what was missing from people who play with tremendous technical capability, but are a little bit flat in terms of their emotional delivery on stage, like, why do we want to listen to one person versus another? And it's usually not their technique, um, if, assuming that there's no issues for either one.

So, that was the kernel for this, and I was trying to call it physiological virtuosity, and people were saying, what's that?

And I said, well, it's the opposite of impressive virtuosity. And they said, well, okay, we kind of understand that. Impressive virtuosity, that's what you hear in a lot of competitions. Fast and loud playing. Basically, competitive playing where it's just arpeggio after arpeggio on the hardest technical pieces, but, but there's no gravity somehow.

….

So then one of my supervisors, uh, proposed expressive virtuosity and I was like, aha, that's exactly what I mean. And so expressive virtuosity for me is the tools and the knowledge and the body management that an artist acquires over time in order to be able to be sensitive to their musical environment, to be in total control of their instrument, and to be able to make it sound like more than what it is.”
 
Thanks so much Ffingers & Tom for this link to Michael Bridges. I am totally into the "expressive technique". I found this out about 3 years ago when I started to play the accordion again. I only took accordion for 2 years (8-10) as a kid. As I look back, I believe what my teacher taught was "impressive technique". You had to practice extensively (eacn song/excersize 15 times) I quit because my teacher would count out the beats and bang them out on the music stand (Om Pah, Pah, or Om Pah, Om Pah). I felt like a robot. Back then you had to be able to play difficult tunes like Malagueña, Dizzy Fingers, or Flight Of The Bumble Bee. It seemed like if you could get to that level you "made it". I never could, so I quit. Now, after all these years, I find so much pleasure in playing very simple tunes (the KISS principle) with a lot of expression. That's where it is for me.
 
That guy from "The bulletproof musician" has been around for quite some time now and he's been reaching out in to other areas outside of his experience, which is piano, and doing well. He first came in to my sights about 12 years ago when he was doing his how to practice and how to memorize music back then. He's done a lot of good things.

What does expressive virtuosity mean to me? I don't want to sound like I am putting anyone down, but for me it is a fancy term for "play with feeling". People often need to make something simple sound grandiose and awe inspiring.

Giving something an impressive title to me is a simple waste of time. Call it what it is... play from the heart. "Expressive Virtuosity" is making a mountain from a molehill and makes my teeth itch... loll

Understand me, I am not denigrating playing with feeling, just the word choice used to define something simple. I'm a simple person and as I age, I find I LIKE simple talk. Leave your scrabble award winning vocabulary in the closet... lol

When I was in my late teens and up to mid 20's, I was top of the heap technically speaking. Flight of the Bumble Bee, Trieste Overture, Fantasie Impromptu, Prelude and Fuge #2 and others were literally warm-up pieces for me. I played well, but I was not mature enough to play WITH HEART. It is rare that you will find a young person play with emotion (there are exceptions of course... somehow, I feel that the Asians have a way around that trap, because when I see a 5-year old on a violin with great emotional intensity, it is beautiful).

Today I know why **I** was unable to do so at that time, because for me, music back then was the torture device that was applied to me by others. I played flat, emotionless because it gave me no real joy. Ultimately, it cased me to stop playing altogether.

For most of us here, we are now of a certain age, a certain experience, and fewer things in life will help one enjoy the music better than the experience of life and what that brings, and perhaps the nice thing is now that because we become less technically adept as we age, we get to take our time and play the less demanding music we enjoy and that pleasure comes through... at least in many pieces of music, I tend to gravitate to now when in private, they are slow, emotional and make me feel the joy of happiness or sadness.

I am finding a lot of pleasure in playing songs like "I Left my heart in San Francisco" or Liszt's "Leibestraum" (though the horrendous bass jumps will challenge anyone... lol). They tend to bring out the emotion in me, which, if I ever recorded, would likely be visible to the viewers.

Playing with feeling... call it what you want, but a rose, is a rose, is a rose, and always smells with the exact same sweetness no matter what you call it. Why call it anything else other than what it simply *really* is?? :)
 
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John M said:
Thanks so much Ffingers & Tom for this link to Michael Bridges. I am totally into the "expressive technique". I found this out about 3 years ago when I started to play the accordion again. I only took accordion for 2 years (8-10) as a kid. As I look back, I believe what my teacher taught was "impressive technique". You had to practice extensively (eacn song/excersize 15 times) I quit because my teacher would count out the beats and bang them out on the music stand (Om Pah, Pah, or Om Pah, Om Pah). I felt like a robot. Back then you had to be able to play difficult tunes like Malagueña, Dizzy Fingers, or Flight Of The Bumble Bee. It seemed like if you could get to that level you "made it". I never could, so I quit. Now, after all these years, I find so much pleasure in playing very simple tunes (the KISS principle) with a lot of expression. That's where it is for me.
Click to expand...

JerryPH said:
That guy from "The bulletproof musician" has been around for quite some time now and he's been reaching out in to other areas outside of his experience, which is piano, and doing well. He first came in to my sights about 12 years ago when he was doing his how to practice and how to memorize music back then. He's done a lot of good things.

What does expressive virtuosity mean to me? I don't want to sound like I am putting anyone down, but for me it is a fancy term for "play with feeling". People often need to make something simple sound grandiose and awe inspiring.

Giving something an impressive title to me is a simple waste of time. Call it what it is... play from the heart. "Expressive Virtuosity" is making a mountain from a molehill and makes my teeth itch... loll

Understand me, I am not denigrating playing with feeling, just the word choice used to define something simple. I'm a simple person and as I age, I find I LIKE simple talk. Leave your scrabble award winning vocabulary in the closet... lol

When I was in my late teens and up to mid 20's, I was top of the heap technically speaking. Flight of the Bumble Bee, Trieste Overture, Fantasie Impromptu, Prelude and Fuge #2 and others were literally warm-up pieces for me. I played well, but I was not mature enough to play WITH HEART. It is rare that you will find a young person play with emotion (there are exceptions of course... somehow, I feel that the Asians have a way around that trap, because when I see a 5-year old on a violin with great emotional intensity, it is beautiful).

Today I know why **I** was unable to do so at that time, because for me, music back then was the torture device that was applied to me by others. I played flat, emotionless because it gave me no real joy. Ultimately, it cased me to stop playing altogether.

For most of us here, we are now of a certain age, a certain experience, and fewer things in life will help one enjoy the music better than the experience of life and what that brings, and perhaps the nice thing is now that because we become less technically adept as we age, we get to take our time and play the less demanding music we enjoy and that pleasure comes through... at least in many pieces of music, I tend to gravitate to now when in private, they are slow, emotional and make me feel the joy of happiness or sadness.

I am finding a lot of pleasure in playing songs like "I Left my heart in San Francisco" or Liszt's "Leibestraum" (though the horrendous bass jumps will challenge anyone... lol). They tend to bring out the emotion in me, which, if I ever recorded, would likely be visible to the viewers.

Playing with feeling... call it what you want, but a rose, is a rose, is a rose, and always smells with the exact same sweetness no matter what you call it. Why call it anything else other than what it simply *really* is?? :)
Click to expand...
Regardless of what it is called Michaël has opened a new world for me by explaining HOW you can play with (pick any name you wish) that connects you emotionally to the music. Definitely time well spent for me.
 
Dingo40 said:
While at "college", I came across this little poem which may apply here:
"To make a name for learning
When other roads are barred,
Take something very easy
And make it very hard!"
😄
Click to expand...
It is remarkable if someone can write a thesis on playing from the heart, and it's perhaps even more remarkable if a person can play from the heart by reading a thesis. :unsure:
 
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JerryPH said:
That guy from "The bulletproof musician" has been around for quite some time now and he's been reaching out in to other areas outside of his experience, which is piano, and doing well. He first came in to my sights about 12 years ago when he was doing his how to practice and how to memorize music back then. He's done a lot of good things.

What does expressive virtuosity mean to me? I don't want to sound like I am putting anyone down, but for me it is a fancy term for "play with feeling". People often need to make something simple sound grandiose and awe inspiring.

Giving something an impressive title to me is a simple waste of time. Call it what it is... play from the heart. "Expressive Virtuosity" is making a mountain from a molehill and makes my teeth itch... loll

Understand me, I am not denigrating playing with feeling, just the word choice used to define something simple. I'm a simple person and as I age, I find I LIKE simple talk. Leave your scrabble award winning vocabulary in the closet... lol

When I was in my late teens and up to mid 20's, I was top of the heap technically speaking. Flight of the Bumble Bee, Trieste Overture, Fantasie Impromptu, Prelude and Fuge #2 and others were literally warm-up pieces for me. I played well, but I was not mature enough to play WITH HEART. It is rare that you will find a young person play with emotion (there are exceptions of course... somehow, I feel that the Asians have a way around that trap, because when I see a 5-year old on a violin with great emotional intensity, it is beautiful).

Today I know why **I** was unable to do so at that time, because for me, music back then was the torture device that was applied to me by others. I played flat, emotionless because it gave me no real joy. Ultimately, it cased me to stop playing altogether.

For most of us here, we are now of a certain age, a certain experience, and fewer things in life will help one enjoy the music better than the experience of life and what that brings, and perhaps the nice thing is now that because we become less technically adept as we age, we get to take our time and play the less demanding music we enjoy and that pleasure comes through... at least in many pieces of music, I tend to gravitate to now when in private, they are slow, emotional and make me feel the joy of happiness or sadness.

I am finding a lot of pleasure in playing songs like "I Left my heart in San Francisco" or Liszt's "Leibestraum" (though the horrendous bass jumps will challenge anyone... lol). They tend to bring out the emotion in me, which, if I ever recorded, would likely be visible to the viewers.

Playing with feeling... call it what you want, but a rose, is a rose, is a rose, and always smells with the exact same sweetness no matter what you call it. Why call it anything else other than what it simply *really* is?? :)
Click to expand...
I agree with you Jerry, if you are only trying to describe "Expressive" -- keep it simple -- don't use complicated words.

As you can see from my post above, I don't like "Impressive Technique" --I think I hate it. This was drilled into me. These are two different methods of playing. What I like about about Michael Bridges choice or words, where, in 2 words, he describes the complete contrast between the two. If, I am trying to describe "Expressive", I like your approach/description. However, If I am trying to describe, what I believe are two totally different methods, of playing -- Like "Expressive"/ Impressive". I'm only looking for two words that describe the large contrast between the two. If you have two different "Contrast" words, let me know.
 
To me, all aspects of learning (about accordions, fill in the blank, etc.) are interesting. Reading, watching videos, listening. Jerry, you are expressively impressive, no problem. Have fun in Connecticut. I’m going to the (mid) western outpost, Duluth, but probably not paying for the Helmi tour this time…..
 
JerryPH said:
Seriously, I feel you give me way more credit than I am due, I’m just some old guy that plays accordion. :)
Click to expand...
Not at all pal, your playing has many excellent qualities.

Tom said:
To me, all aspects of learning (about accordions, fill in the blank, etc.) are interesting. Reading, watching videos, listening.
Click to expand...
...noticed you never included practicing.:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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