Transferring M reed blocks

[Ganza]

Hi all,

Just wondering, since people sometimes seem to want a change of amount of wetness/dryness in their M M sound, is it possible to just take one block of M reeds (the one that is a little off the other reeds) and replace it with another, either wetter or dryer (more or less hz apart)?

 

[debra]

Yes, this is possible if you get another M reed block for the exact same model of accordion, but with different tuning.
But... in many accordions the M reeds that are a little off are not all on just a reed block with these reeds. Often they share a reed block with either another M reed, or with L or H reeds, meaning that you cannot just exchange the "M reed block" but need to replace a block with more reeds.
Every accordion (model) is different. I don't recall ever seeing an accordion where all the M reeds that make for the wet MM sound are on a single block. But they do probably exist.

 

[JIM D.]

The most economical way is to tune a set up or down while they are still in the reed blocks. Replacing the reeds could cost from 10 to 20x the cost of tuning, and to make a new replaceable reed blocks (2 will be needed) with new reeds, multiply the cost of basic tuning 30 to 40 times.

 

[debra]

The most economical way is to tune a set up or down while they are still in the reed blocks. Replacing the reeds could cost from 10 to 20x the cost of tuning, and to make a new replaceable reed blocks (2 will be needed) with new reeds, multiply the cost of basic tuning 30 to 40 times.

Very true, but if you want the option to have more or less tremolo without making that permanent, then extra reed blocks are the only viable way. (Half-pressing the MM register can be tried but is unlikely to bend the frequency in an even way across the length of the keyboard.)
I have read a report and watched a video of an accordion player who got an extra set of reed blocks for the Sirius bayan in order to have the option to play music with quarter-tones. (That music is very weird to my ear, but it is special.) Of course the reed blocks cannot be switched over in a 1 minute break between two pieces. A break of about 10 minutes was needed.

 

[Ganza]

Very interesting answers, thank you both.

Yes, I was wondering about it as a temporary thing, not permanent.

 

[debra]

Very interesting answers, thank you both.

Yes, I was wondering about it as a temporary thing, not permanent.

Well, for a temporary thing you might want to start by experimenting with the MM versus M register. If you start with M and then only partly press MM you are choking the second M reeds which causes them to to lower. If the second (tremolo) M reed is tuned higher the tremolo will become a bit drier. However, if it is tuned lower then the tremolo will increase (become wetter). Most but not all accordions have the tremolo reed tuned higher than the dry M reed. When MM is fully pressed you can reduce the tremolo by partly pressing the M register.
Playing with the register will probably not have the same effect to all notes, so its not as good as having extra reed blocks, but it costs nothing ;-)

 

[JIM D.]

Nice post on choking a set of reeds. The old 00 s or Excelsior 4 rockers were very popular because the rockers could be used to choke any of the 4 sets of reeds to amplify tremolo effects. I own one and have one in my shop for rebuild. There should be more that one Italian maker that will still make a 4 rocker on special order. If I find a maker Ill post it.
http://www.accordiongallery.com/Excelsior-OO-USA
Back in the 30s thru late 40s many American and Italian makers offered models with this rocker shift machine design. In my collection I have a 1939 N.Y.,New York Iorio Candido that not only has these 4 rockers but has a tone chamber. The accordion is huge and it weighs in at 36+ pounds - we have nicknamed it Godzilla. :lol:

 

[NigelB]

I have been considering the same thing. I have an excelsior 00 and fancy swapping the high reed for a third middle to make lmmm. The 00 is a loud box and at least to my ears is a little shrill but has a quite nice mm tuning already. I play French style solo accoustic gigs but only have lmmh boxes. Nick Ariondo did a similar reed swap on a 00 with great results I have the spare reeds to do it but would need a new reedblock or modification to the existing block but where can I find a reedblock from a 00?

 

[JIM D.]

You will need 2 reed blocks to convert. The replacement reed blocks will have the H set removed to fit size M reeds and also contain the L set. So now you have the cost of a new set of M and a new set of L, and the cost of finding and alteration of the 00 reed blocks which are now long obsolete. Now I have the need to make money and will build the reed blocks for you but, the cost of your endeavor will far exceed the value of your 00.
For half the price, you can pick up a used "V" accordion and tune it to your "Cup O Tea".

And on this video Nick is playing an older custom Factory LMMM "00" made for the Europe market.
Made in Italy- late 40's, assembled in the N.Y.,New York USA and shipped across the Pond. And most certainly has gone thru a gorgeous rebuild.
These older "00"'s are very valuable in their original state, not altered, and sought after for rebuild's.

 

[NigelB]

I see, thanks Jim. sounds more complicated than I thought! I didn't know they made an lmmm 00. Mine is not one of the older NY ones and didnt cost me much at all from ebay despite being in decent condition. I have a complete set of decent italian reeds in a dilapidated lmmh box that could be donated so the only cost would be the reedblock. As it stands I don't play it much so maybe I should sell it on and look for an mmm box but I like the idea of adapting it and I think it would sound great.

 

[wout]

depends what its worth to you, but you could try sending them: http://www.accordions-agenziaitalia.com/ an email. The girl who wrote with me was really helpful and explained with some schematics why my request was impossible but they are very experienced in customization of accordions take a look at the facebookpage its really nice to see all this old instruments looking fabulous again. I bet they can help you further

 

[NigelB]

Thanks wout.