Tips on transfer from PA to 5 row C Griff

[debra]

The problems I have often seen are: 1) confusion as to where on the music score you need to continue after looking down at the keyboard and 2) in an orchestra people who look at the score and at the keyboard have no time left to look at the conductor.
Of course when you start learning you need to visualize the keyboard in your head, just like you visualize the lefthand side as well. The mirror approach is a nice trick. But in the end it should not be necessary to ever look at the keyboard while playing. After years of playing the same instrument the keys will not have moved. You should develop some muscle memory as to which moves brings you to which key. And marked keys may also help.
My wife sometimes looks at her keyboard and more often than not it causes here to lose track of where in the music piece she is. It's hard enough to keep track of where you are when you need to press a chin switch and have varifocal lenses. (While you continue to look at the score it suddenly becomes all fuzzy for a moment.)

 

[donn]

in an orchestra people who look at the score and at the keyboard have no time left to look at the conductor.

Is that what conductors are for? I thought it was something like interpretive dance for the benefit of the audience, pointing to players so youll know who just came in, etc. (Or was supposed to come in, anyway.) If its for the players, they should follow the beat, shouldnt they?

 

[george garside]

The conductor is a most important individual as in reality an orchestra is just a bloody great musical instrument played by a conductor!

george :evil:

 

[Anyanka]

I switched to C-system CBA in 2013, after four years of PA. I'm glad I didn't leave it any longer - my playing has definitely improved faster thanks to the switch. My box has the F and C treble keys marked with a kind of cross-hatch, but the previous owner filed them down as he felt it slowed down his playing. I quite like that effect: there is enough texture left so I can find them as starting keys, but they don't grate

When I first switched, I made myself a keyboard chart, printed it out and kept it on the music stand, as I work best with visual aids and needed a map to find my way from one note to another.

As for the thumb on edge issue: I am slightly puzzled by that notion, probably because I like to play across all five rows, with the longest fingers primarily on the top rows, and the little finger & thumb on the bottom three, as it keeps your hand nice and loose in a natural position. I played across all five rows from early on, as I didn't want to learn tunes in a more complicated three-row pattern and then have to relearn them with added rows later. I have seen quite a few excellent players who never use the top row on a 5-row box at all, however.

 

[JackieC]

I am, also, attempting to learn CBA after 23 years on PA. I've only been at it a couple of weeks and I really like it. As to whether I will become as proficient on it as I am on PA, is yet to be seen. Anyway, it is a fun challenge and I appreciate reading the posts by those of you with more CBA experience. I started working with the exercises in the Palmer-Hughes Accordion course book 1, which is what I started with, years ago. The problem is, I have so much music in my head that I want to try it out on the CBA. I have to realize that it comes slowly, with patience and a lot of repetition.

 

[debra]

I am, also, attempting to learn CBA after 23 years on PA. Ive only been at it a couple of weeks and I really like it. As to whether I will become as proficient on it as I am on PA, is yet to be seen. Anyway, it is a fun challenge and I appreciate reading the posts by those of you with more CBA experience. I started working with the exercises in the Palmer-Hughes Accordion course book 1, which is what I started with, years ago. The problem is, I have so much music in my head that I want to try it out on the CBA. I have to realize that it comes slowly, with patience and a lot of repetition.

When my wife and I made the switch 8 years ago we were told it would take about 6 years to get back to our old level (of playing PA for something like 40 years). Our experience matches that advice. 6 years of hard work, but rest assured that after a year or so you can already play very well; it just takes more effort to learn difficult pieces than it did before. By now it takes us the same effort it would have taken on the PA. When I made the switch I immediately learned to never look at the keyboard (but if necessary rely on the marked notes, which unfortunately are not the same on all my accordions). My wife does occasionally look at the keyboard as she finds that easier than relying on the marked notes.

 

[george garside]

a continental box is in 3 row form the same as a piano box but with different fingering sequences . The 4 and 5 rows are much the same but with usefully duplicated notes aavailable.

The best way of getting the hang of the continental is simply to practice 3 scales over and over again until they can be played accurately at speed without having a gander at the keyboard. Right hand chords et will be quite straight forward thereafter.

george

 

[dan]

the transition is worth the effort though not as simple as it may first appeaar.... get a good book (the medard feddaro one is great) just to cover chord blocks rather than thinking in scales....itll become clearer later if this approach is taken.

Could you expand on this please, Losthobos?

Im a few weeks into Gallianos book. Ive had to learn to read bass clef (rather than just using chord cues) to deal with the bass solos and noticed that theres a big difference between playing a scale pattern from muscle memory and really knowing where the notes and intervals on the bass side are located. Perhaps the same is true of the CBA right hand--that my focus should be on the layout of the buttons rather than the movement of my fingers?

Similarly, there seems to be a difference between blundering about poking buttons around until I find the tune (my usual method for ear playing) and deliberate ear training. Well, this instrument is a second chance to get it right.

 

[craigd]

When my wife and I made the switch 8 years ago we were told it would take about 6 years to get back to our old level (of playing PA for something like 40 years). Our experience matches that advice. 6 years of hard work, but rest assured that after a year or so you can already play very well; it just takes more effort to learn difficult pieces than it did before. By now it takes us the same effort it would have taken on the PA. When I made the switch I immediately learned to never look at the keyboard (but if necessary rely on the marked notes, which unfortunately are not the same on all my accordions). My wife does occasionally look at the keyboard as she finds that easier than relying on the marked notes.

Paul, I may soon have my hands on a CBA, but I'm wondering if I should try to convert. You say it took six years to gain the proficiency you had on the PA, and that after 8 years, "now it takes us the same effort it would have taken on the PA." And earlier you said your ability to improvise will never reach the same level. So you must have compelling reasons for playing the CBA rather than the PA on which you can learn the same pieces with the same effort and improvise better. I am intrigued by the CBA, but need to know what those reasons are before I go for it!
People occasionally ask "Would you do it again?" and our answer is "Most certainly, but starting at least 10 years earlier."

 

[debra]

... you must have compelling reasons for playing the CBA rather than the PA on which you can learn the same pieces with the same effort and improvise better. I am intrigued by the CBA, but need to know what those reasons are before I go for it!

My wife and I both made the switch for different reasons. She wanted to learn melody bass but could not handle the size of a convertor PA (with 45 keys). I suggested to try CBA. My motivation to start with CBA was to learn to play an accordina. I did not want to practice for hours on the accordina itself, so I started on CBA to learn accordina without having to "blow" all the time. Both of us quickly fell in love with CBA and ditched the PA in favor for it. The key properties are the compact size for a large range of notes. My wife now mainly plays a Bugari 540/ARS/C which is very compact (41cm) yet has 52 treble notes and 49 melody bass notes. I play a bayan with 64 treble notes and 58 in melody bass and is 46cm.
It took a lot of effort, and now, 12 years into it I can safely say I am almost at the point where even the improvisations are going very well. We both feel that it was certainly worth all the effort it took to become pretty good on the CBA.

 

[craigd]

My wife and I both made the switch for different reasons. She wanted to learn melody bass but could not handle the size of a convertor PA (with 45 keys). I suggested to try CBA. My motivation to start with CBA was to learn to play an accordina. I did not want to practice for hours on the accordina itself, so I started on CBA to learn accordina without having to "blow" all the time. Both of us quickly fell in love with CBA and ditched the PA in favor for it. The key properties are the compact size for a large range of notes. My wife now mainly plays a Bugari 540/ARS/C which is very compact (41cm) yet has 52 treble notes and 49 melody bass notes. I play a bayan with 64 treble notes and 58 in melody bass and is 46cm.
It took a lot of effort, and now, 12 years into it I can safely say I am almost at the point where even the improvisations are going very well. We both feel that it was certainly worth all the effort it took to become pretty good on the CBA.

Thanks Paul. For me the compact size and range are also appealing. I also like the logic and aesthetics of the CBA layout. I have the opportunity to buy a 1950s five row Guerrini C griff that has 54 buttons in the first three rows. It will probably need some work, but is inexpensive at least to purchase. Do the older CBAs hold up as well as PAs? Are they harder to repair?

 

[debra]

Thanks Paul. For me the compact size and range are also appealing. I also like the logic and aesthetics of the CBA layout. I have the opportunity to buy a 1950s five row Guerrini C griff that has 54 buttons in the first three rows. It will probably need some work, but is inexpensive at least to purchase. Do the older CBAs hold up as well as PAs? Are they harder to repair?

Sounds like a nice accordion. Just to "dampen" your enthusiasm a bit: the number of buttons on the first three rows only gives an *upper limit" for the range of notes. In CBA dummy buttons are sometimes added at the bottom and top. So the accordion may actually have fewer than 54 notes. To know for sure you have to count the pallets under the grille.
The only thing that is a bit harder to repair on CBA than PA is the keyboard. Everything else is just the same.