The Star International Competition is throw us some fine examples of juvenile musicianship:
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The accordion is far from dying away
- Thread starter Ffingers
- Start date
There is something about the portrayal of Russian children in this manner that I find deeply disturbing.
It reminds me of the infamous TV series from the early days of Channel 4 called "Minipops". Not nice.
It reminds me of the infamous TV series from the early days of Channel 4 called "Minipops". Not nice.
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Dingo40
Been here for ages!
The truth is, whatever one does in life, in order to excel ( and surpass) you have to start young and work hard. ( And often put up with lousy conditions.)
We westerners have forgotten these basic facts and are shocked to see ourselves in decline as a result.
But, that's life!
Surpass or be surpassed!
One often sees North Korean, Chinese, Russian, even Japanese children thriving in, even enjoying, conditions that make our toes curl.
We, on the other hand, continually infantilise our children and turn out "elderly" school leavers unable to read, write or calculate.
I used to joke that soon the school leaving age would equal that of the old age pension
But, enough said.
We westerners have forgotten these basic facts and are shocked to see ourselves in decline as a result.
But, that's life!
Surpass or be surpassed!One often sees North Korean, Chinese, Russian, even Japanese children thriving in, even enjoying, conditions that make our toes curl.
We, on the other hand, continually infantilise our children and turn out "elderly" school leavers unable to read, write or calculate.
I used to joke that soon the school leaving age would equal that of the old age pension
But, enough said.
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I think it's the old debate again about skill versus creativity. I prefer the latter, and impressed that upon my own children. I don't know about the rest of the west. I haven't really been impressed with a couple other countries lately.
Dingo40
Been here for ages!
I'll just say this: a Chinese migrant, father of several primary school aged kids, running a very successful recycling business here in Australia, a few years ago, sent all his kids to live with his relatives back in China because he thought our schools and education system here were crap. I had to agree with him!
Dingo40
Been here for ages!
So true!
They are not being "portrayed" - it is a competition.
Not that I favour competions of this kind at any level - they do tend to stifle the joy of making music for its own sake and some parents and teachers do seem to prepare their children for competition rather than broader musical appreciation.
That was not, of course, my point in posting this - it was the simple matter of the accordion not vanishing from future music expression.
Yea! Verily!So true!
Skill versus creativity?
Creativity needs skills to express itself and skills without creativity are of little real value.
It is not an either/or situation any more than the Arts/Science supposed dichotomy.
Any separation is imaginary and arbitary.
Try Professor Tom Lehrer as an example:
mtj
Member
I'm curious. Do people think that competitions stifle the joy of playing sports? Is there something different about the arts? I actually think that not having music competitions greatly diminishes the joy, because you lack feedback and lose a lot of motivation to do you best, you lose the opportunity to even know what is possible.
The high school my children attended had a choir teacher who did not believe in competitions. My daughter joined the choir and hated it and quit after a semester. The focus was only on the joy of singing. My daughter thought the class was a mess and boring, it wasn't like she was part of working hard together to challenge themselves to create something truly special. Anything no matter how mediocre was okay. The choir was small and very few students were interested, in contrast my son was in the marching band which was obsessed with competition and was huge and lots of students.
It's fine to sing or play in your bedroom for your own joy. But if you want to have the pleasure of bringing joy to others, you need something like a competition to motivate you. Most people I know regret that they didn't work harder as a child to learn to play better so they could appreciate being able to play as an adult. I don't generally encounter people who regretted working too hard at music as a child.
In the case of the video posted, I can see why it was posted as she played very beautifully and had a great deal of poise. I enjoyed it as much as or more than any of the other videos from the competition. I personally appreciate that she did not feel the need to show a lot of emotion. To me the emotion she felt in her heart came through in her playing.
I think it's a case of, like anything else, finding a happy medium. I see nothing wrong with competitions, as long as they do not cause undo stress, either in youth or adulthood.
It's personal choice, like what type of accordion or music you like. Some people are real turned on by competitions, or songs with a million notes per second. I, personally, prefer an animated amateur with a big smile, soul, and a few wrong notes.
I am more interested in an amateur runner who organizes a marathon to support the local food pantry than an olympic hero.
It's personal choice, like what type of accordion or music you like. Some people are real turned on by competitions, or songs with a million notes per second. I, personally, prefer an animated amateur with a big smile, soul, and a few wrong notes.
I am more interested in an amateur runner who organizes a marathon to support the local food pantry than an olympic hero.
Sport is mostly about competion, mjt, and that too has ruined the concept of playing for joy and amusement for many people.
As Tom writes, there are those who are competetive by nature and those who do things solely for personal achievement.
I have known budding musicians of outstanding capability give up playing because of excessive pressure to pass examinations, let alone formal competitions.
In my own view, Art, sculpture, music etc primarily exist for self expression; if someone else enjoys it and is prepared to pay to see, watch, listen etc. that's fine, but, again for me, that is not the primary objective.
As Tom writes, there are those who are competetive by nature and those who do things solely for personal achievement.
I have known budding musicians of outstanding capability give up playing because of excessive pressure to pass examinations, let alone formal competitions.
In my own view, Art, sculpture, music etc primarily exist for self expression; if someone else enjoys it and is prepared to pay to see, watch, listen etc. that's fine, but, again for me, that is not the primary objective.
Javthedog
Active member
Genius is 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration........ hard work
mtj
Member
Let me honestly say I don't generally like accordion competition videos and don't watch them because they seem to only try to demonstrate technical skill like how fast can you play and how long and extreme you can do a bellows shake. But that isn't fundamentally a problem with competition but with the requirements of particular competitions. No doubt competitions have have serious flaws and the structure of them could be improved.
I think it's very hard for someone to achieve excellence in isolation. Competitions are social constructs designed for people to see other people, to get ideas about what is possible, what the standard for excellence is, what people value, what they enjoy. To have people be exposed to what you can do, to get feedback about how an audience enjoys your work. Many people enjoy competitions because you prepare and then get together with like minded people and participate with people who give their best.
Therefore, I don't think competitive by nature and solely for personal achievement are mutually exclusive.
If art, music etc. is just self expression to you that's fine. But really that's a private affair between you and perhaps family and friends. But there are those of us who like to go to museums and concerts. We expect to pay good money to see people who along with whatever self expression have worked very hard to entertain and produce something that others will enjoy. A public performance is not about you it's about the audience and how you entertain them, how you communicate emotion to them.
The people I know who play well, really well, well enough that I enjoy hearing them play worked very hard and played in competitions. They learned to play so that others would be entertained.
Rhapsody in Blue is not a competition piece but the people who can play it well enough that people will want to pay money to hear it are likely those who have played in competitions.
But I respect your opinion, we all have different experiences, and we can agree to disagree.
"The people I know who play well, really well, well enough that I enjoy hearing them play worked very hard and played in competitions. They learned to play so that others would be entertained."
From memory, and that is distant memory, some teachers at Conservatoria of Music actively discourage participation in competitions until their students have completed their formal studies.
One very famous Harp teacher of that many stringed instrument even felt that the graduated examinations which many teachers enrol their students into could be disadvantageous to the more talented and/or precocious learners.
My opinion on this topic is entirely irrelevant, but I am inclined to hark more to the opinions of those folk actively engaged in instructing and educating talent to the highest levels.
From memory, and that is distant memory, some teachers at Conservatoria of Music actively discourage participation in competitions until their students have completed their formal studies.
One very famous Harp teacher of that many stringed instrument even felt that the graduated examinations which many teachers enrol their students into could be disadvantageous to the more talented and/or precocious learners.
My opinion on this topic is entirely irrelevant, but I am inclined to hark more to the opinions of those folk actively engaged in instructing and educating talent to the highest levels.
I learned to basically hate competitions from a very early age because I was forced and told it was part of the things I had to do.
Today I can choose, and I definitely fall in to the “for personal improvement” and tend to avoid any form of competition.
As for skill vs creativity, a bit of a blind spot here. Whatever level of skill we have limits out creativity. The more skill, the more creative you can be. You cannot create what you cannot play. I was never Mr. Creative as a young man. If it was not on the paper, it was not played… that is competition style. Today I do small improvisations, additions and care less about being “picture perfect” because I am in it for the fun and pleasure and for me and no one else.
If you like what I play, cool… if not, hit the stop button and move on to the next, I promise you I won’t be offended.
Today I can choose, and I definitely fall in to the “for personal improvement” and tend to avoid any form of competition.
As for skill vs creativity, a bit of a blind spot here. Whatever level of skill we have limits out creativity. The more skill, the more creative you can be. You cannot create what you cannot play. I was never Mr. Creative as a young man. If it was not on the paper, it was not played… that is competition style. Today I do small improvisations, additions and care less about being “picture perfect” because I am in it for the fun and pleasure and for me and no one else.
If you like what I play, cool… if not, hit the stop button and move on to the next, I promise you I won’t be offended.
Jaime_Dergut
Active member
In my experience, it is only in the USA that the accordion is irrationally looked down.
But is no wonder since stores no longer sells them or buying them so many young people have never seen one.
Curiously, any time a store has an accordion working, it sells right away.
But is no wonder since stores no longer sells them or buying them so many young people have never seen one.
Curiously, any time a store has an accordion working, it sells right away.
A heck of a lot of music, musicians and genres have suffered under the doctrine of "If it ain't commercial - ignore it."
When success is measured only in monetary terms and popularity dictated by mass advertising and promotion, the good gets stifled under the dross.
