Save a rusty reed

[32251]

Sometimes you just don’t have a choice. If it’s caked with rust…toss it. Most are just surface corrosion, and if you need to save it then it only takes a few min. A soak in vinegar or navel jelly would be wise, but if you don’t want to do that, then take a jewelers screwdriver and lightly scrape off the surface, then a strip of 220 paper and lightly sand till gone. Plan on retuning it depending on which way the pitch goes.

 

[dak]

"Vinegar or navel jelly"? You mean naval jelly (phosphoric acid). Oxalic acid (10%) and/or citric acid are also good for derusting without attacking the steel.

 

[Glug]

Oxalic acid is the active ingredient in wood bleach, and that's usually a lot cheaper.
Also used to derust vintage bicycle frames.

eg, https://www.agwoodcare.co.uk/products/oxalicacid/

 

[Squeezebox Of Delights]

Is navel jelly similar to ear wax?

 

[32251]

I am going to try the navel jelly. See if I can save some time.

 

[Ventura]

i dunno if any of the chem's mentioned is using ionic action,
but there are chemical molecules that are able to attract oxygen
so strongly, that oxidized metal simply shines up without rubbing
or reducing anything

in the Water biz, especially Rural wells, sometimes Iron is very much a problem
and the water can be clear when the iron is oxygen starved, then immediately
upon it being aired (like the toilet tank or a dripping faucet) you get a rust stain..

there is a common chemical used to de-rust clogged media filters and tanks,
you take a rusty glass of water and a bit of this powder and wahoo, the water
becomes clear like magic.

so the Dairy people have a similar, liquid chemical non-soap cleaner they use in the Tanks
(the milk storage and handling stuff is constantly being cleaned and maintained)
it works the same way.. i even use it to make oxidized copper shine.. the body
of my Halloween Spider is a huge upside down Copper Firebowl, and i spritz this
stuff on it every fall then buff with some Lemon Pledge

fe (iron) as an ion is smaller than a filter mesh, it passes through and past everything.
when it combines with some free oxygen it turns into a particle that is filterable
and can catch on stuff and build up. Oxygen likes to react with anything it can,
especially available when moisture is abundant, even more after a storm as ozone
the wet point is the ring of thinning metal on your Clothseline Pole where
it meets ground level (thats why seemingly strong steel poles suddenly snap off)

whether this action can be used on reeds and reduce the metal loss from scraping
or acids, i dunno for sure, but i would probably try it this way if i had a bunch of
rusty reeds i wanted to save rather than just swap out

 

[Vladimir M.]

A soak in vinegar or navel jelly would be wise,

Vinegar or navel jelly

please this: https://www.accordionists.info/thre...ays-to-remove-rust-from-reeds.8638/post-97445

Late to the party... Excuse me for poking my nose in: I know little about accordions, but I DO know a bit about engineering...

Rust removal by chemical means (acids and/or chelating agents), in this application, risks the possibility of setting off dissimilar metal (galvanic) corrosion, where electrolyte remains trapped between reed and reed plate. Also, depending on the material used for the reed plate, the acid may attack it more than it removes rust. Therefore, I think chemical removal is best avoided. As has been said, WD40 has no effect on rust, other than providing a medium to 'wash' it off. Also, any residual film of WD40 will tend to oxidise to a sticky gum, which will hold dust, etc. Again, best to avoid water-displacement or corrosion-protection fluids. Certainly don't rub pencil/graphite onto reeds, as I've seen advocated. This will set up an electro-chemical cell, if there's moisture present, and thus corrosion. It's for this reason that marking aircraft components with pencil is prohibited, and residual graphite, used as a drawing lubricant in the manufacture of copper pipes, is the cause of pin-hole pipe perforations, which keep plumbers wealthy!

Faber-Castell and others produce propelling-pencil-like things that hold tight bundles of glass fibres. Originally produced as drafting film erasers (to remove indian ink), they are now used a lot in fine manufacturing as abrasive brushes. Gentle, but very effective against light rust. It's also possible to get brass and stainless steel refills for them. Essential toolkit items! There are also similar, but smaller diameter items, often with 'ceramic' fibres. Good for very fine work, but very expensive.

'Naphtha' is rather a dustbin term for light petroleum distillates. 'White spirit' or 'Mineral turps' could also be called 'naphtha'. Xylene is a good/better wax solvent. It may be difficult to get, but some paintbrush cleaners/restorers contain it. Just be careful when buying such stuff - it's often difficult to tell from the packaging just what's inside...

Summary:
The only safe way in my humble opinion: mechanical cleaning and subsequently washing in acetone. Everything else can end up interesting for the chemist, but painful for the accordion player...

Best regards, Vladimir

 

[jakubko123]

please this: https://www.accordionists.info/thre...ays-to-remove-rust-from-reeds.8638/post-97445


Summary:
The only safe way in my humble opinion: mechanical cleaning and subsequently washing in acetone. Everything else can end up interesting for the chemist, but painful for the accordion player...

Best regards, Vladimir

Zdravím pán Vladimir, aký máte názor na ošetrenie hrdzavých hlasov na zinku denaturovaným liehom ?
Za odpoveď ďakujem
Kováč

 

[JKJ]

I didn’t read all the posts and have no experience with rusty reeds.

However, with my experience with rust on all kinds of mechanical things from tools, polished steel, and cast iron I almost always use a product called Evapo-Rust.

I’ve used it to restore polished hardened rusty ball bearings, a cast iron engine cylinder, numerous small tools and other steel parts made from both hardened and soft iron, and a cast iron bandsaw with a horrible rusty area (caused where I left a block of acidic wet oak wood overnight.)

In every case all rust was removed completely with no other detectable changes to the metal. It’s not acid-based product. The active ingredient is EDTA (ethylenediaminetetraecelate). You can’t leave a part in Evapor-Rust too along, and the solution can be reused. I’ve used it by immersing the part, but if it’s too big, by laying a rag on a surface and soaking the cloth, covering with plastic wrap, and letting it soak overnight. In the morning I wiped the surface and the surface was perfect and the rust was gone.

For the rusty engine cylinder (water has somehow accumulated inside the cylinder), I lowered the piston below the rust, removed the water, wiped it dry, then filled it with Evapo-Rust. The next day it appeared perfect after cleanup. The engine now runs well.

The case of the rusty ball bearing: it was on the drive shaft of a farm implement that was accidentally dropped and was left in the dirt and leaves for about 8 years. It was so rusty it was frozen and couldn’t even be disassembled - I was sure it was trash. But soaking the whole thing in Evapor-Rust overnight dissolved all rust and left no detectible pitting on the bearings or races. I disassembled, lubricated and reassembled. It’s been in use now for the last few years. It was like magic.

It might be work to try this on a read. Unlike abrasive means, it doesn’t risk grinding/sanding away “good” steel.

JKJ

 

[John M]

. . .EDTA (ethylenediaminetetraecelate). . . .
JKJ

V-E-R-Y I-N-T-E-R-E-S-T-I-N-G.

EDTA is also used in Chelation Therapy (as an IV infusion) to remove harmful metals such as Lead, Mercury, Cadmium, etc. from the bloodstream.

 

[Vladimir M.]

It might be work to try this on a read.

Sir,
allow me a few comments on your post:

Evapo-Rust....It’s not acid-based product. The active ingredient is EDTA (ethylenediaminetetraecelate)....

EDTA is an acid, please here: CLICK

I didn’t read all the posts and have no experience with rusty reeds. However, with my experience with rust on all kinds of mechanical things from tools, polished steel, and cast iron I almost always use a product called Evapo-Rust.

I'm glad you have experience with the mentioned panacea fo rust, but I would humbly point out that in the case of accordion reeds, these are much more, more, more sensitive, and tiny things, such as bearings or engine cylinder heads. In addition, in the case of reed plates, it is a combination of several types of metals: spring steel (reeds) + plate (mostly Dural-Alu, or zinc, or brass or even tin). I would be very careful with such solutions. Of course, everyone can do what they want. Everyone is responsible for self-help repairs of their instrument. Even in the case of additive collateral damage.

Zdravím pán Vladimir, aký máte názor na ošetrenie hrdzavých hlasov na zinku denaturovaným liehom ?

Nemám skúsenosť so zinkom, všetky moje nástroje majú hlásky na Dural-Alu platniach. Takisto nemám skúsenosť s denaturákom. Svojpomoc (pár hlasov, ľahký korózny povlak a pod.) pri hrdzi riešim acetónom (bacha, rozleptáva umelohmotné ventilky), alebo veľmi jemným šmirglovým papierom (bacha, na ladenie) no a tam, kde sa dostanem ľahko k hlasom, tak stačí (kupodivu) tvrdá kancelárska guma na gumovanie - ale s citom a hlavne aby s ňou človek nepoškodil vedľajšiu ventilku vedľa hlásku. Ale radšej prevencia, než hrdza, potom je to v háji a v podstate neexistuje lacné, rýchle a účinné riešenie.

Best regards, Vladimir

 

[JKJ]

In addition, in the case of reed plates, it is a combination of several types of metals

i never imagined dunking the whole reed plate into a solution. I expected the reed would first be removed from the reed plate, cleaned, then riveted back into place. Maybe it would be easier just to replace the reeds (if possible.)

In fact, from the photo it might be best to replace the reed plates and all. And while I applaud 32251’s initiative and energy in working on that, if there was enough dampness to rust the reeds like that I might wonder about the integrity of the wood and other parts.

EDTA is an acid, please here: CLICK

Sorry, my mistake, I got the EDTA from the Google: “What is the active ingredient of Evapo-Rust? Evapo-Rust uses a chelation agent, most likely EDTA (ethylenediaminetetraacetate).”

I should have included the words “most likely” in my post indicating this was someone’s guess.

Of course everything we read on the internet is true, right? Ha! Maybe this unnamed source was incorrect. I see EDTA has a wide range of uses, including as a food additive.

When I asked the EvapoRust manufacturer some years ago they told me the ingredients were secret. (perhaps why the unnamed source above guessed “most likely.”) The Evapo-Rust person said it was not acid-based. Perhaps their proprietary recipe neutralizes the acid. Only the Good Lord and perhaps a good lab knows for sure and I’m no chemist - I didn’t even think to try a simple litmus paper test, but I could (as soon as I find where I put my litmus paper or PH test kit).

It would be interesting to test cleaning some rusty reeds with several methods. When my accordion tech friend gets back into town next month maybe I’ll ask if he has any old, rusty steel reeds I could experiment with. If I do, I’ll report back.

BYW, during the many times I used EvapoRust there were often other metals and materials present: seals, o-rings, plastic, brass, etc. I don’t recall it affecting anything but rust on mild and hardened steel (including HSS) and cast iron. I think I’m on my 2nd gallon now. I like it better than the “rust conversion” products often sold to farmers and others.

JKJ

 

[dak]

i never imagined dunking the whole reed plate into a solution. I expected the reed would first be removed from the reed plate, cleaned, then riveted back into place.

That will affect the reed gap and consequently the reed frequency. Essentially you are creating a hand-made reed from inferior (and pre-damaged) material, and likely without the warranted kind of tools and experience.