"Same Advice"

[JIM D.]

Ive found a website from across the pond that echos my advice to the values of older models of accordions & repair --
http://www.accordions.co.uk/Pre-WarInstruments.htm
http://www.accordions.co.uk/Index.htm

 

[Anyanka]

Yep. Emilio Allodi is one of our finest dealers and repairers, hugely respected. I have only ever bought a set of shoulder straps from him, but his shop is an Aladdin's cave of accordions, and his expertise is immeasurable!

 

[Soulsaver]

I was looking for this but I couldn't find it recently when we had that 'discussion'....

May be worth having it up as a sticky that we can refer to without someone peeving over the realisation that their vintage instrument isn't going to fund their aspirations.

 

[boxplayer4000]

When people ask about restoring an old accordion I let them have a printed out copy of this sensible and well structured article.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

It is always useful to have a point of reference, especially when it has been published by so reputable a dealer. I have never had the pleasure of visiting Mr. Allodi's emporium, but I have heard and read that it is a Mecca for accordionists.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Mr. Allodi's contentions are beyond refute, and it would be a foolish man who did not recognise his great expertise in matters relating to the accordion.

I wonder, however, what advice Mr. Allodi would give to someone who had a profound emotional attachment to an instrument. I would like to think that he may temper his advice in such situations, and do his best to offer some crumbs of comfort.

I own a number of items which have come down to me over a couple of centuries. None of them are particularly valuable, at least in cold monetary terms, but they are, nevertheless, priceless to me.

My only reason for writing this post is to make a clear distinction between monetary and sentimental value. I sincerely hope that others will recognise and identify with the need to preserve items which may not be of any great value, but which have an historic importance and are emotionally woven into our lives.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[Soulsaver]

I wonder, however, what advice Mr. Allodi would give to someone who had a profound emotional attachment to an instrument.

Well.. he does cover it in the link...

This kind of work should only be thought of if there is a sentimental value to the accordion.
The work would take approximately two weeks and cost between £500-£800. Once the instrument is overhauled it will only really be worth the price of the repair if you are lucky and more to the point, very difficult to find a buyer.  (Bad news if you want us to overhaul it - well over one year waiting list even if I take it in!)

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Soulsaver,

I thank you for pointing out Mr. Allodi's distinctions regarding sentimental value. This, as I'm sure you will agree, is the correct way to advise anyone who is considering a restoration project.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[jozz]

Agree, but even on top of that:

I wonder, in most cases, what generates sentimental value in the case of a very old musical instrument?

And even if it has, why does it need that overhaul at all? So either someone has played the life out of it (apparently it has lots of functional value so shell out the money), or it was decoration all along.

 

[Anyanka]

Agree, but even on top of that:

I wonder, in most cases, what generates sentimental value in the case of a very old musical instrument?

And even if it has, why does it need that overhaul at all? So either someone has played the life out of it (apparently it has lots of functional value so shell out the money), or it was decoration all along.

Sentimental value: The Husband has been in the process of refurbishing a very old small accordion for a friend for quite some time now.... it belonged to a deceased family member, which is why our friend wants to be able to play it; unfortunately, she only has a small budget to work with, and its almost impossible to make the box playable within that.

The reason it needs the overhaul is the usual - after years of storage, the wax has dried, the valves have curled up, the reeds are rusty. It needs a full refurbish just to make it sound - but not to make it sound great...

 

[george garside]

I have carried out several ''cosmetic'' restorations on boxes with sentimental value because it was eg dads, grandads, aunty nellies etc/

I have always done this on the basis of not putting it into playing order in any way shape or form but only so it could be used as an ornament. I have also always advised the customer that the cosmetic restoration would not add any value to the box and that its only value would be the sentimental one felt by the customer.

george

 

[Soulsaver]

I wonder, in most cases, what generates sentimental value in the case of a very old musical instrument?

And even if it has, why does it need that overhaul at all? So either someone has played the life out of it (apparently it has lots of functional value so shell out the money), or it was decoration all along.

The reason it needs the overhaul is the usual - after years of storage, the wax has dried, the valves have curled up, the reeds are rusty. It needs a full refurbish just to make it sound - but not to make it sound great...

Hi A
I think (Jazzs) point is, and definitely my take on it, is if youre a player (so already have your usual squeeze box)youre unlikely to want to payout big to play a vintage accordion in addition, unless its technically something rare &very special.

If youre not a player, but you want to display it in a glass case, it isnt worth spending the money to get it to good playable for it to sit around doing nothing deteriorating for another generation.

Either way, except in exceptional circumstances, you wouldnt be spending the time or money.

Sticky?

 

[Edocaster]

As someone who has both taken on the challenge of an old accordion, and visited Allodi, I can say he was not unsupportive, and gave quite a bit of free advice.

And I do think there is something worthwhile about bringing an old instrument to a condition close to when it was in its prime. Even if it isn't cost or time-effective.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Edocaster,

Very well put! There are things which cannot be explained in terms of money. I have an 1891 copy of Strand Magazine (among many other old books). It is a bit dog-eared, but I love it for what it is. I have absolutely no idea of its value, nor do I care.

A friend of mine has recently helped me to restore a 60 odd year old Hohner Arietta 120/41. It isn't perfect, but it is certainly in playable condition. Some may consider my efforts to be a waste of time and money, but I am very happy to play an accordion which is almost as old as me.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[jozz]

Some may consider my efforts to be a waste of time and money.

If you feel like that, then its not. Its your sentiment. In your case the difference here being you doing it yourself (with help), which Id say ads even more to the sentimental value and the story of the instrument in question.

This opposed to advising someone to have it fixed up costing materials but most of all the hourly rate of a craftsman. He/she would be sympathetic not to take on the work immediately and warn the client, think it over...what exactly is this sentiment, and what will the end-result be?

Im about to have my old Egmond fixed up, although by the looks of it, its not worth it. I suspect its somewhat rare and from my home region, from a maker that ceased to exist. I cant verify this, its all my gut-feeling. It will be at least 300-400 euros. And after fixing I will have a compact one-voice, wet-tuned, dime a dozen accordion. But still I havent let it go yet...

So, in that regard I find this discussion very interesting.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hi Jozz,

It is, as you say, an interesting discussion, as it provides an insight into people's personal values.

We may like to think that our decision making processes are driven by logic alone, but this is just an illusion we tend to create in order to justify our choices.

It may well be the case that some of our decisions are well thought out, but most of us will recognise that we usually act in a predictable manner. After all, advertising agencies target our little foibles.

I live in a very old house, surrounded by very old books, ornaments, paintings and ephemera. I have modern electronic equipment as well, but my real interests are the 19th Century books and Bronze oil lamps I own.

Each to his/her own, I guess.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

Yes , well,

some of us are interested in old stuff, me included.... but can I add something to the general advice given by Mr. Allodi ? When he metions the three pre war accordion makes that are worthy of restoration (Cooperativa, Dallapé and Ranco) we should note that there are several manufacturers who used the word 'Cooperativa' in their company name. I think this was due to the success of the company ' Cooperativa Armoniche Vercelli ' who's instruments were made to a very high standard.

That company is still going, in a resurected form, as Cooperfisa, but the name can be found in various forms like 'Coop Armoniche'.... Coopé Armoniche' and should be verified by the inclusion of the town name 'Vercelli'.

I have not yet experienced the qualities of Dallapé instruments but I do own two Rancos from the 1930's and Five Cooperativa Armoniche Vercelli's... all in various states of repair and ranging in date from 1926 to 1937. The Rancos need work but all five Cooperativa's were playable when I bought them and the one I play everyday, including with a band, was made in 1931 and I've done virtually nothing to it.

My friend has had a pre war Ranco restored ( at a big cost) and his 1931 Coopé is the best accordion I have yet played! I am a musical instrument maker so I have a big interest in crafstmanship but it is the sound of these old accordions which appeals to me. Perhaps it is that the sound is bigger than many modern accordions I have tried, maybe more like the Bayan? That is just a guess as I've never heard Bayans live.

Luckily, in France there are one or two people who specialise in the restoration of old accordions... deciding if one is worth restoring... Ah that's a different matter!

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hello Geoff,

Though I don't (currently) own an accordion older than 60 odd years, I would certainly not be opposed to owning one. The Arietta has a lovely, sweet sound. It is very rich and mellow.

I am quite sure that some modern instruments also sound good. A very good friend of mine has a Bugari, and that sounds superb. I have recently heard a Sonola being played, and it was terrific.

All that said, I feel it is more likely that an old instrument could offer a beautiful sound at a bargain price. This is just a theory, but the two old German instruments I own sound really nice. The old Arietta cost me nothing and only required a bit of cleaning.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

Hello Stephen,

I guess I was taken by surprise the day my wife , our friend and I went to view some instruments being sold off following the death of a private collector , I was sold the moment I tried the Cooperativas , so much more sound than the modern CBA I was then playing....
Since then I have heard several current prestige makes which impress, particularly a Victoria and very recently a Weltmeister which was not very loudly played but had a beautifull basson voice.

We are often advised to 'try before you buy' as accordions can be individual and definately some production periods are better than others...
cheers,
Geoff.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hi Geoff,

Sometimes (though not often) we land on our feet. It appears that you did just that on the day you bought your Cooperativas.

Though perhaps not in the same class as your Cooperativas, I am nevertheless pleased with my fairly recent acquisition of the Arietta IV M. The sound it makes (even in my hands) is warm, rich and mellow.

I do not know enough about modern production methods to make any definitive comments, though I strongly suspect that accordions made by experienced artisans are many times better than those which are largely machine built.

Though not a particularly good player myself, I still appreciate the workmanship involved in making a good instrument. None of that matters very much in a folk club, and my old Chinese Chanson is quite good enough for belting out fairly simple folk music.

Keep on turning out your exquisite pipes, Geoff.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[jozz]

Well people, I have just acquired my oldest instrument to date. A Hohner Preciosa.

It's about 80 years old and it needs a bit of a re-tune but it's terrific.

At 21 cm top to bottom it is ridiculously cute. Just look at it.