Russian piano accordion advice anyone?

[Bartlebooth]

Hi, Im new on the forum, Irish guy living in Finland, playing accordion for about 4 months, looking to buy a castelfidardo accordion of course but for the moment that is just a dream. Ive been practicing on a mid-sized parrot PA for a few months and Ive definitely got the bug for this instrument, Ive messed about with all types of instruments in my life and finally have found the one I should have started with!, just realizing that the two hands can work together although playing different tunes is wonderful to experience(with lots of practice). I found a brilliant teacher online and I just love the way he teaches. http://www.linkonardo.com/en/accordion/c2855/chris-accordion-lessons-lesson-series-learn-to-play/
Anyway, back to the question. In Finland there are lots of second hand things for sale, there are wonderful flea markets in this country, and also online, so Ive been looking at the (cheapest!) various piano accordions available at the moment. Okay, I saw a Russian make which looks quite interesting, although I cant for the life of me figure out the damn make, Ive practically learned to speak Russian in my search for this word, the problem is the text is in Russian cursive (handwriting), not capitals, so its really really hard to figure out where this accordion is from and if its any good. I have talked to the (Finnish) guy whos selling it, and asked if it smells musty (no) and he says it works fine, so I guess I will make the trip (about 100 kms) to have a look. The accordion will only cost 70€ so even if it makes good sounds and all the keys work nicely I think its probably worth buying as a practice instrument. Here is a few pictures of the beast and I asked him to send me a close up of the make, which he did:
Advert pics here: http://www.tori.fi/keski-pohjanmaa/Haitari_25563739.htm?ca=18&w=3
Close-up here: <ATTACHMENT filename=Russian Piano Accordion Brand.jpg index=0>

Dont drive yourselves mad trying to figure out the brand name the second two or three letters are very hard to figure out (unless one is Russian of course). But any help or advice at all would be appreciated, thanks!
Bartlebooth

 

[Morne]

Thats a Rhapsody (Rapsodiya - Рапсодия). There are actually two variants of that name. The other one is not cursive.

It doesnt look like they are held in high regard, at least if you go by some of these broken English translations:

https://translate.googleusercontent...g=ALkJrhjagxv2LOM8rCG1tyixAeQGPJ_r6w#post9028

https://translate.googleusercontent...=ALkJrhici2_cnXUXOhpRIvIgDYr2Nxz3Rw#post42809

As a general rule Id say that older Russian-made piano accordions are worse than East German ones.

 

[Bartlebooth]

Thanks Morne!
That was a quick reply, I will definitely not be buying the Rhapsody as I have checked out those links that you suggested. The broken English is a pain, but at least there is general agreement that the Рапсодия aint worth it. My favourite quote from the google translator was But as the saying goes talents horse in the mouth do not look fabulous!
Well I will keep looking. There are many Weltmeisters for sale over here. Theres an Amigo 300€, an Unisella(40s looks a bit worn out) 120€ http://www.tori.fi/paijat-hame/PianoHarmonikka__25283685.htm?ca=18&w=
Maybe its better if I should save up for a nice Pigini, or Borsini, or Giuletti, or just a magnificent Scandalli would do... Im off to look at more super videos from Liberty Bellows playing all their Accordions for sale

Thanks again for the info Morne, you saved me a few quid there!

 

[JerryPH]

You seem to be looking at a lot of different styles of accordion, and this is good. If I can offer a little advice, have a budget, find one that you really like that is a touch above that budget and bid to what you can afford.

Best thing you can do is purchase from a known reputable source. Yes, private sales can save you some money, but the chances of unwanted surprises increases dramatically as well. Second, once you have made a choice, make the purchase final by including a clause that says that if you try it and do not like it, that you can return it. This is very hard to accomplish most of the time, but try anyway, it can save you a lot of buyer's remorse.

For me, my whole life, the way that I have worked is research the HECK out of what I want, narrow down the choices to 2-3, and then focus on finding the best one for me from that group. Then the price hunting begins.

If dealing with places like eBay or Kijiji, be wary of scams, they abound. If something looks too good to be true, it usually is.

 

[Bartlebooth]

Hi JerryPH, thanks for your sound advice, actually I was coming to the same conclusion myself in a way. As you say I should concentrate on 2 or 3 different makes that I like and go for one of those. I realized after listening to many different accordions for sale being played (mostly from the Liberty Bellows website who just have some great accordion players giving demonstrations) Im beginning to like the sound of certain accordions more than others. I realize that the sound isnt obviously live but still some of those accordions just seem to effect you deeper than others just through the sound. For example the sound of this NOBLE accordion (pricey!) is really nice (the accordionist is unbelievable, although too technically tight for my taste, hes great at showing the range of the instrument Im learning too about the Low, middle and high number registers, the reeds and the interior build of accordions, casotta etc and I think for me a beginner who is ambitious to be able to play maybe about 10 to 20 different tunes well within a year maybe, I think I could stretch to a 3 register (or is it reed!) accordion, which would do me fine for a number of years. And I will make sure it get it from a reputable dealer, in fact I could eventually afford one of the ones from Liberty Bellows (Im not working for them honest!!), they would come with a guarantee Im sure just need to find out about postage.
Thanks again for your great advice Jerry, it was spot on!
Bartlebooth

 

[Nuuksu]

Russian boxes were common in Estonia, they were cheap and piece of crap. In soviet time russians concentrated only for quality CBA-s, even cheaper ones were playable. I have played and teared down russian professional PA "Leningrad" it felt that it was leftover from factory. Some East-Germany boxes were much better, but not all. Weltmeister and Royal Standard were East-German names for acceptable instruments.

 

[JerryPH]

I realized after listening to many different accordions for sale being played (mostly from the Liberty Bellows website who just have some great accordion players giving demonstrations)

Glad I was able to offer something. I am much lower on the experience side than many here, but when I can offer anything, I try.

Here is a thought... if you like Liberty Bellows (and they are considered as being trustworthy), you can do what another member here did... road trip! :b

That way you could also try out a few others and kind of solidify your choice. BTW, that Noble did sound fine. I dont know much about them, its not a brand that I was exposed to much in my experience. I was always more Hohner, Excelsior, Paolo Soprani, Titano familiar. Lately brands like Beltuna and Bugari have seeped into my consciousnous too... lol

 

[Bartlebooth]

I've spotted quite a few of the Royal Standard accordions also selling on the websites here as well as many more old Soviet era ones I can't make out the names but there are several brands which keep popping up and it seems they are all in the cheap range, so yeah, I'm taking all the advice you guys are giving me and saving my pennies for a quality machine with a full sound. I'm going to do more research in the meantime to find a few favourites and who knows, maybe there will be a road trip on the cards sometime, perhaps to Liberty bellows in Philadelphia (what was the name of the member who went there?) or even closer what about a crusade to Castelfidardo, maybe there is some old master craftsman who'd take a good bottle of whiskey for a slightly shop-soiled Pigini! Failing that, it will just be nice to get some decent sunshine and a change of scenery.
Cheers all!

 

[JerryPH]

... what about a crusade to Castelfidardo, maybe there is some old master craftsman whod take a good bottle of whiskey for a slightly shop-soiled Pigini! Failing that, it will just be nice to get some decent sunshine and a change of scenery.

Oh, that is definitely in my future! Ive read in a facebook post a while ago about where a group of accordionists all got together and made the pilgrimage to Castelfidardo and some of the places they went like the Accordion Museum and some of the manufacturers, it sounded so amazing!

 

[Bartlebooth]

I'll be practicing my accordion in the meanwhile and will remember to get in touch with this website if you or any others are still interested in a trip at a future date, until then thanks for all the sound advice and enjoy making music with this magical instrument {}

 

[landro]

If the Soviet built accordions are anything like the Soviet made cameras I`d tend to stay clear of them.
They pirated just about anything built in Germany they could get their hands on during and after the war , made copies but the materials and tolerences employed were almost always substandard.
And it`s true that Japan made some junk too but eventually that changed so the newer Soviet goods might be much improved .

 

[JerryPH]

You make it sound like the Russians never had an accordion before the war. In fact, they had accordions all the way back to the 1820s and started manufacturing their own in the 1830s.

A small quote of the link I will provide below:
1883 Tchaikovsky used 4 accordions in his Second Suite for Symphonic Orchestra, and in 1890 Sterligov made a 3 row chromatic accordion called Reform.

http://www.accordions.com/index/his/his_su.shtml

Its pretty much a guarantee that *all* countries that made accordions made junk as well as jewels. Its just the same story but a different location... some are nice, some arent. To say that an entire country cannot ever make a good product is not very fair nor realistic.

 

[landro]

You make it sound like the Russians never had an accordion before the war. In fact, they had accordions all the way back to the 1820s and started manufacturing their own in the 1830s.

A small quote of the link I will provide below:
1883 Tchaikovsky used 4 accordions in his Second Suite for Symphonic Orchestra, and in 1890 Sterligov made a 3 row chromatic accordion called Reform.

http://www.accordions.com/index/his/his_su.shtml

Its pretty much a guarantee that *all* countries that made accordions made junk as well as jewels. Its just the same story but a different location... some are nice, some arent. To say that an entire country cannot ever make a good product is not very fair nor realistic.

OK, fair enough. Could you point me to any credible sites or blogs that might enlighten me to the high quality of Russian built accordions vs those made in Italy?

 

[JerryPH]

OK, fair enough. Could you point me to any credible sites or blogs that might enlighten me to the high quality of Russian built accordions vs those made in Italy?

Well, I dont want to take the fun out of doing your research for you, but you can start here and continue your research yourself.
http://accordion-museum.com/en/accordions/ru
http://melodia-tula.com/

Both links found in a 10 second google search.

 

[debra]

The core of the opinion on the Soviet PA instruments seems to have faded somewhere: it was a remark about the lack of quality PAs, because the russians concentrated on quality CBAs. This is still somewhat the case except for AKKO that seems to create high quality PAs with large reed plates. But that company was only started around the time the Berlin wall came down, hardly a real Soviet time company.
There is lots of interesting info on Internet about even the good instruments like old Jupiter bayans. There is a guy who has YouTube movies about restoring/updating old Jupiter bayans. They illustrate quite nicely what was good about the old bayans (like the reed plates) and what was not so good (like the guides for the key-to-valve levers which would wear out and needed to be replaced).
The Russians are at least partially learning how to do things properly by looking at what the Italians do. One of the two companies that calls themselves Jupiter has pictures of them fitting large reed plates in a Bugari PA. So today there may be good Russian PAs. But I do believe that long ago all effort to produce good quality instruments in Russia (and other Soviet countries) went into CBA.