Roland FR4x and cassotto

[Sandy Flett]

I recently took delivery of my FR4x and am struggling to understand how it deals with cassotto effect. I have gone through the 4 manuals I downloaded from the Roland site.

It is stated on Page 1 of the manual Supplementary Explanation of the FR-4x/4xb Reed Combinations that: “The cassotto function of each reed can be turned on/off; the “on” state is indicated by a white circle”. But I cannot find any guidance as to how you do this. On enquiring on a 4x forum I was informed that you press the Shift and Sordina buttons. So I tried this on a number of reed combinations (the display confirming Sordina is on) and am not sure I can discern any effect, let alone a realistic cassotto effect. It would also appear to only work on the overall combination of (right hand) reeds being played whereas what I need is for cassotto effect on the individual middle M reed and the L reed.

Even if the Sordina effect was adequate, it is stated on Page 29 of the Reference Manual that “Sordina effect is OFF at the time of power-on. Also, it will not be stored in the system / the SET / the User Program”. But I want it as an intrinsic part of a saved voice.

Surely this is not the best Roland could do for such a distinct effect as cassotto.

Am I missing something? Any help much appreciated.

 

[Ventura]

OK

First of all you need to get your Java FR4X Editor
loaded onto a computer, working, and connect
the FR4x to it with that old style printer USB cable
that plugs in the low side of the accordion next
to the power and midi and audio sockets.

i posted the rest of this "how to" with the zipped file
comparison.ST4
in a new thread so that others and future newbies can find it
since it may be helpful to others

ALSO, don't waste any time on the sordino feature, it is a fake
as no sordino's were ever actually modeled so it is like a sugar pill

 

[JerryPH]

ALSO, don't waste any time on the sordino feature, it is a fake
as no sordino's were ever actually modeled so it is like a sugar pill

A sordino effect amongst all of them is the easiest to "model" without "modelling"... basically you lower the overall volume 2-3db and cut the highs a bit... there is your sordino effect... lol

 

[debra]

A sordino effect amongst all of them is the easiest to "model" without "modelling"... basically you lower the overall volume 2-3db and cut the highs a bit... there is your sordino effect... lol

A cassotto effect would be rather similar, but it needs to affect just 1 or 2 voices (typically 16 and 8 foot) and leave the others alone. And it would raise the volume and cut the highs for the voices "in the cassotto", not lower it.
Maybe the Proxima "vaporware" will have a true cassotto simulation...

 

[Sandy Flett]

Thanks, Ventura, things are looking a lot more promising now. Will have a go with installing the software later today.

 

[Ventura]

[QUOTE="debra, ]
A cassotto effect would be rather similar, but it needs to affect just 1 or 2 voices (typically 16 and 8 foot) and leave the others alone. And it would raise the volume and cut the highs for the voices "in the cassotto", not lower it.
[/QUOTE]

there are some interesting capabilities, however, built into the reed manipulation and
cassotto control/adjustments

the last shift in my comparison test set actually has
L reedset, raised an octave, lowered a bit in volume
M reedset in cassotto lifted a good bit in volume
M- and M+ reedsets in ccssotto lowered a bit in volume
then a mild meusette spread applied.. just enough for a sweet sound
but still allowing for 4 fingered full chords on the lowest octave of the keyboard
without dissonance (Jazz Meusette)

thats right.. virtually a 4 voice meusette

not only can you adjust the relative spreads and volumes of each reed
individually, but you can mix reeds from different reedset families

you can also imitate that Pancordion i have by putting the
M+ reed in the cassotto with the M set out

consider selecting the reedset with the best forward, clean tone for the M reed
and mix that with the reedset with the best richness for the L reed..
this would be an interesting combination to a quick fingered player like
C.Pez..

consider that these fine adjustments and wide selection of source reeds
can virtually give you the ability to experiment and find ways to
overcome the anomalies and weaknesses in physical accordions..

obviously, men like GOLA were focused even obsessed with finding
ways to overcome those natural "flaws" to equalize volumes to
minimize noise to coax reeds to respond quickly and more cleanly

and the best part is we each have our own ears and tastes of what we
think is the ideal sound.. with so many reedset waveforms and an international
slew of ethnic families of core tones to choose from.. to mix and match seeking the
best combinations seeking ones own concept of perfection.. so EVERYONES Roland
can EASILY be programmed to sound quite unique.. to take on an aspect
of the owners personality through it's unique cmbninations

with these tools at hand (and now, a set that allows everyone to audition
every different virtual reedset cleanly) there is literally no excuse
for half the worlds V-accordions to sound like "Dale's V-accordion"
or anyone elses

this programming toolset makes it easy for anyone who wishes to
take the time and trust their own ears

i mean i managed to do this in a week on the FR7 they originally gave me
and i had no software to help.. just the tiny screen..

this Editor makes it dead easy..
now the only tiny screen stuff you need to adjust is in the FX section

the main question goes back to why do they ship new Rolands with such piss-poor
sounds programmed in ? is it still as i surmized years ago that the Italians simply
do not want a digital accordion to sound "too good" so they sabotage the
programming just enough ?

and why after all these years are the owners manuals still so arcane ?

again are they brain dead or are they saboteurs ?

was the principle purpose of the design team to make as much
money as they possibly could off of Roland and off of residual Patents ?

the core sounds available have not changed since the first V-Accordion,
except for the added dynamic RAM area where you can load .bin reedsets
from the few authorized by Roland.. the chipset with the wavesets and
GM sounds and extended Piano and Organ waveforms is exactly the
same in every single V-Accordion ever built, as well as the FX companion chipset

the programming access to those chipsets is the only difference in the capabililities
of the various models over the years, and (finally) the addition of the fully functional
USB daughterboard

the full HAMMOND style core functions were always there, as you may recall
i reported at the beginning of the V-Accordion era that they had built the FR5/7
software interface off of the front end software that already existed for the
Roland VK series drawbar organs, and which serendipitously is why you could
actually emulate a Dallape Liturgical model from the very start if you cared
to program it in yourself on one of the existing reedsets

the FR4x has a ton of potential to those who will dive in and experiment

 

[Pbraido]

[QUOTE="debra, ]
A cassotto effect would be rather similar, but it needs to affect just 1 or 2 voices (typically 16 and 8 foot) and leave the others alone. And it would raise the volume and cut the highs for the voices "in the cassotto", not lower it.

there are some interesting capabilities, however, built into the reed manipulation and
cassotto control/adjustments

the last shift in my comparison test set actually has
L reedset, raised an octave, lowered a bit in volume
M reedset in cassotto lifted a good bit in volume
M- and M+ reedsets in ccssotto lowered a bit in volume
then a mild meusette spread applied.. just enough for a sweet sound
but still allowing for 4 fingered full chords on the lowest octave of the keyboard
without dissonance (Jazz Meusette)

thats right.. virtually a 4 voice meusette

not only can you adjust the relative spreads and volumes of each reed
individually, but you can mix reeds from different reedset families

you can also imitate that Pancordion i have by putting the
M+ reed in the cassotto with the M set out

consider selecting the reedset with the best forward, clean tone for the M reed
and mix that with the reedset with the best richness for the L reed..
this would be an interesting combination to a quick fingered player like
C.Pez..

consider that these fine adjustments and wide selection of source reeds
can virtually give you the ability to experiment and find ways to
overcome the anomalies and weaknesses in physical accordions..

obviously, men like GOLA were focused even obsessed with finding
ways to overcome those natural "flaws" to equalize volumes to
minimize noise to coax reeds to respond quickly and more cleanly

and the best part is we each have our own ears and tastes of what we
think is the ideal sound.. with so many reedset waveforms and an international
slew of ethnic families of core tones to choose from.. to mix and match seeking the
best combinations seeking ones own concept of perfection.. so EVERYONES Roland
can EASILY be programmed to sound quite unique.. to take on an aspect
of the owners personality through it's unique cmbninations

with these tools at hand (and now, a set that allows everyone to audition
every different virtual reedset cleanly) there is literally no excuse
for half the worlds V-accordions to sound like "Dale's V-accordion"
or anyone elses

this programming toolset makes it easy for anyone who wishes to
take the time and trust their own ears

i mean i managed to do this in a week on the FR7 they originally gave me
and i had no software to help.. just the tiny screen..

this Editor makes it dead easy..
now the only tiny screen stuff you need to adjust is in the FX section

the main question goes back to why do they ship new Rolands with such piss-poor
sounds programmed in ? is it still as i surmized years ago that the Italians simply
do not want a digital accordion to sound "too good" so they sabotage the
programming just enough ?

and why after all these years are the owners manuals still so arcane ?

again are they brain dead or are they saboteurs ?

was the principle purpose of the design team to make as much
money as they possibly could off of Roland and off of residual Patents ?

the core sounds available have not changed since the first V-Accordion,
except for the added dynamic RAM area where you can load .bin reedsets
from the few authorized by Roland.. the chipset with the wavesets and
GM sounds and extended Piano and Organ waveforms is exactly the
same in every single V-Accordion ever built, as well as the FX companion chipset

the programming access to those chipsets is the only difference in the capabililities
of the various models over the years, and (finally) the addition of the fully functional
USB daughterboard

the full HAMMOND style core functions were always there, as you may recall
i reported at the beginning of the V-Accordion era that they had built the FR5/7
software interface off of the front end software that already existed for the
Roland VK series drawbar organs, and which serendipitously is why you could
actually emulate a Dallape Liturgical model from the very start if you cared
to program it in yourself on one of the existing reedsets

the FR4x has a ton of potential to those who will dive in and experiment
[/QUOTE]
I agree 100 percent with program and tweak the sounds yourself to your liking and make up your own sets that are your personalized sets - experiment with everything the Roland has to offer - mixed reeds from different accordion sets - Cassotto on different reeds and even taking different reeds and raising or lowering them an octave- changing the amount of mussette and tweaking that different amounts. Make the Roland yours so it sounds like no other and it pleases your ear and accordion sound choices. Ventura makes very good points in his post

 

[John M]

Ventura, I really appreciate your detailed description about the design of the Roland V accordion. Little by little I understand more about how this digital accordion works through your posts on this forum.

The main reason I bought my 8X was the detailed tonewheel setup just like a B3. I am constantly trying different adjustments with the PC editor to get the accordion sounds "just right" for me. The other big plus is that the 8X is portable and I can take it to the people to enjoy. My 400 lb. B3 and 200 lb. Leslie are not very portable. I also use a Micro Vent 122 that really adds realistic Tremolo to the Hammond sound.

 

[Tom]

Wow, so much potential, so little time. I'm super happy to know this it's there, and our man Ventura, and others knows know to get there, but I guess I'll sound like Dale's accordion for a while longer....

 

[Tommaso B]

OK

First of all you need to get your Java FR4X Editor
loaded onto a computer, working, and connect
the FR4x to it with that old style printer USB cable
that plugs in the low side of the accordion next
to the power and midi and audio sockets.

i posted the rest of this "how to" with the zipped file
comparison.ST4
in a new thread so that others and future newbies can find it
since it may be helpful to others

ALSO, don't waste any time on the sordino feature, it is a fake
as no sordino's were ever actually modeled so it is like a sugar pill

What the hell is a "sordino" effect? I've been successfully playing the FR4X for about 3 years now, and this is the first I've heard of such a thing.

 

[Dingo40]

What the hell is a "sordino" effect? I

AFAIK " sordino" more or less = "mute"
See here:

sordino music definition - Google Search

 

[Alan Sharkis]

A cassotto effect would be rather similar, but it needs to affect just 1 or 2 voices (typically 16 and 8 foot) and leave the others alone. And it would raise the volume and cut the highs for the voices "in the cassotto", not lower it.
Maybe the Proxima "vaporware" will have a true cassotto simulation...

Summer is over. Italy is producing and shipping accordions again. Re: Proxima, one can only hope

 

[JerryPH]

What the hell is a "sordino" effect? I've been successfully playing the FR4X for about 3 years now, and this is the first I've heard of such a thing.

A Sordino on an acoustic accordion is basically a slider that closes off the openings in the grill of the treble side. The sonic result is a reduction in high frequencies a little. So, I would suspect that the sordino effect on the 4X just cuts down the high end a little.

Personal comment... on my Beltuna Leader or Hohner Imperator, both of which are 5/5 instruments, it really mutes the piccolo reed enough that it makes it sound like a 4/5 instrument... a sonically very interesting effect.

 

[Tommaso B]

OK, thanks. I think I can continue to play and remain comfortably unconcerned..... I'm just in it for fun.....
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