Roland FR-1XB BK 2024

[Mullanphy]

I do not yet own an accordion. As per a previous post my musical genre interests are:

• US Old Time (I play at playing the fiddle)
• Hokey, fun, toe-tappin' music
• Folk/dance music from around the world
• OT Gospel
• Tex-Mex
• Symphonic (a better description, I think, than "classical")

I am considering the FR-1XB BK 2024 because of the flexibility of digital (more/different sounds), it appears to be a good quality box and almost in my price range.

Care to share your experiences and/or opinions on this one or its twin, the FR-1X piano box?

Thanks!

 

[dunlustin]

I bought mine about 11 years ago, moved to a button FR4X about 6 years ago.
Some criticisms of the FR1XB are:
It does not sound like an acoustic, the bellows do not behave like an acoustic, it is plastic, not wood like an acoustic, don't like the acc basses...
You say " I do not yet own an accordion" so it is unlikely that any of the above will apply.
Personally, I love the Rolands and wish I had kept the 1XB.
I have almost entirely ignored the Orchestral/Organ/Drums stuff.
I do not like all the Accordion sounds - (many people have enjoyed (?) editing their own versions) - but then I don't like everybody I meet either.
And like the Organ sounds I find it best to just ignore some.
In a few brief words:
There's a lot more to like than to criticise.
The best bass choice is in my view to be found in the Orchestral section - string/bowed...
The option to work with headphones is in itself a good enough reason to buy one - more than a decade on I am still enjoying that.
No acoustic gives a better music per £ ratio.
Your future (inevitable) acoustic will be a better-informed choice.

Finally;
The PA version isn't really a twin - more of a toddler sibling. The button version has 3 octaves - as much range as many PAs that people find enough for a lifetime. (And yes, I know that's also true for a 2 octave PA)
You may also hear: "But it 's old technology." That always seems odd on a forum where we are enthused by tech that goes back to 1829.
So, it may only survive a decade. That's about 150$ a year - cheaper than a weekly Starbucks!
Go for it!.

 

[JerryPH]

Fast question, what is a BK 2024? I know and own a BK-7m from Roland but that was made a good 15 years ago.

Those that know me here know I am a huge fan of both v-accordions and acoustic. I have made several recordings with both and am quite happy. As Dunlustin mentioned, don’t expect a v-accordion to act/sound 100% like an acoustic and you will be happy.

 

[dunlustin]

BK 2024? = Black, this year?

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Fast question, what is a BK 2024? I know and own a BK-7m from Roland but that was made a good 15 years ago.

Those that know me here know I am a huge fan of both v-accordions and acoustic. I have made several recordings with both and am quite happy. As Dunlustin mentioned, don’t expect a v-accordion to act/sound 100% like an acoustic and you will be happy.

Jerry,

I think he’s referring to a Roland FR-1x. The BK designation means he wants a black one. The 2024? Could mean he wants one made this year, not that it matters a lot.

What does matter is that I was reading the Teaching and Learning section here and if I’m not mistaken, he’s looking for a diatonic and the FR-1x is clearly a cba.

 

[ChromaticPaul]

I love my FR-1xb. I have had many electronic instruments. I previously owned an FR-4xb. My keyboard/arranger is the Yamaha PSR-SX900, which is a very high quality model. Concerning the sound, onboard speakers on most electronic instruments (including all V-Accordions) are not intended for performances. They are just mediocre monitors. My SX900 sounds mediocre off its tiny little onboard speakers, but absolutely fabulous when I feed the instrument to a proper amplifier/speaker system. Same thing with all models of V-Accordion. When I feed my FR-1xb to a proper speaker system, it sounds indistinguishable from an FR-4/7/8x. Of course the 4/8 models have some sound sets that my FR-1xb does not. I'm not talking about that. What I am saying is that on equivalent sets, all V-Accordions fed to the same amplifier/speaker system sound exactly the same. The famous "Alpine" resident set (not the expansion) on my FR-1xb sounds exactly the same as the "Alpine" resident set on an FR-4/7/8x. They are indistinguishable. Of course the onboard speakers on the higher models do sound a bit better, but not really a whole lot better. For example, my previous FR-4xb's onboard speakers sounded a bit better than those on my current FR-1xb, but not of sufficient quality for performances, or even most practice work. In my music room I feed all my electronic instruments to a mixer board whose output is fed to a HiFi with proper 3-way speakers with 16" woofers. I mute all onboard speakers. I don't need them in my music room. But of course proper speaker systems cost money. If you want high quality sound, you have to pay for it. No exceptions. If you want an electronic instrument that has high quality onboard sound you have to pay big bucks. My wife has a Kawai piano that has a high quality onboard speaker system. It not only has some ten onboard speakers, it has a soundboard that is driven by a transducer. It's just like an acoustic. She paid $6,000 for it. A similar model that is portable (called a slab) is only $2,500. So you see, if you want high quality sound, you have to pay for a good speaker system. But it's not really a big deal. About $1,000 will do it. In today's world, pretty well all electronic instruments (accordions, pianos, arranger or synthesizer keyboards, organs, etc...) have sampled sounds that are as good as any concert quality acoustic instrument worth thousands. My SX900 and my wife's Kawai piano sampled sounds are better than any acoustic piano worth $50,000 or more. Despite what many people say on this forum, I claim that the sampled sounds on my FR-1xb and PSR-SX900 (it has accordion sounds) are as good as any acoustic accordion. But to realize that high quality, I have to feed them to a proper speaker system. It's just a fact of life. I have seen some accordionists at festivals using an FR-8x playing using their onboard speakers and stepping up to a microphone, as they would when using an acoustic accordion. That turns their $8,000 instrument into a $300 Walmart quality keyboard. However, by connecting the audio output to a proper stage mixer/amplifier/speaker system the sound is as good as any acoustic accordion. Even better because it eliminates stage feedback problems. Again, I love the FR-1xb. I sold my FR-4xb because I could no longer handle the weight. I'm a frail 78 years old. I miss the features of the FR-4x, but find my FR-1x to be perfectly adequate, and it's a lot easier to handle. Best of luck.

 

[dak]

I claim that the sampled sounds on my FR-1xb and PSR-SX900 (it has accordion sounds) are as good as any acoustic accordion.

Go ahead: this is a comparatively simple Stradella bass arrangement of Oblivion (the "Piazzolla 1" booklet is well worth the $20 it costs, containing a number of other good ones):

This accordion does not even have a proper cassotto (the L reed is in "déclassement" but it isn't used for about the first minute). But what it does have is very fine-grained responsiveness, to bellows pressure, and to button depression depth. That means that with regard to the sound quality, there is something happening constantly as long notes unfold, and it is different from just turning a volume control.

Let's not kid ourselves: the timbre and pliability of an accordion sound does not hold a candle to a violin or oboe. But it is a polyphonic instrument with continuous tones and fine-grained continuous expressive control. Polyphonic Instruments like guitar, piano, harpsichord have no continuous control over long notes. A pump organ gives you some bellows control, but nothing compared to an accordion.

And in this "fine-grained control of accordion tone" department, I find the Rolands not all that convincing. Of course when using orchestral sounds that doesn't matter: with a proper amp, the double bass is serious fun. And for brisk accordion tunes, its response is immediate and reliable. It's the slow stuff where I am less than convinced, and being as bad a player as I am, the slow stuff is important to me. The difference may not make a lot of difference to the listener, but it does to me, and that in turn will get to the audience.

I have a Roland for various purposes it is good for, but I wouldn't claim that the results "are as good as any acoustic accordion", and that is not a problem with the quality of samples but in the control I have over the sound: standard multisamples may not be the best reflection for what an accordion can do. In general, digital sampling is most critical with the representation of solo instruments: a string section works more convincingly than a solo violin. And fast passages work better than slow lines. In a band context, the Roland does a pretty good job and has several strengths that an acoustic accordion just doesn't provide.

But it is a tradeoff. A winner in a lot of categories. Just not all. And some of them I have come to care about.

 

[JerryPH]

I love my FR-1xb. I have had many electronic instruments. I previously owned an FR-4xb. My keyboard/arranger is the Yamaha PSR-SX900, which is a very high quality model. Concerning the sound, onboard speakers on most electronic instruments (including all V-Accordions) are not intended for performances. They are just mediocre monitors. My SX900 sounds mediocre off its tiny little onboard speakers, but absolutely fabulous when I feed the instrument to a proper amplifier/speaker system. Same thing with all models of V-Accordion. When I feed my FR-1xb to a proper speaker system, it sounds indistinguishable from an FR-4/7/8x. Of course the 4/8 models have some sound sets that my FR-1xb does not. I'm not talking about that. What I am saying is that on equivalent sets, all V-Accordions fed to the same amplifier/speaker system sound exactly the same. The famous "Alpine" resident set (not the expansion) on my FR-1xb sounds exactly the same as the "Alpine" resident set on an FR-4/7/8x. They are indistinguishable. Of course the onboard speakers on the higher models do sound a bit better, but not really a whole lot better. For example, my previous FR-4xb's onboard speakers sounded a bit better than those on my current FR-1xb, but not of sufficient quality for performances, or even most practice work. In my music room I feed all my electronic instruments to a mixer board whose output is fed to a HiFi with proper 3-way speakers with 16" woofers. I mute all onboard speakers. I don't need them in my music room. But of course proper speaker systems cost money. If you want high quality sound, you have to pay for it. No exceptions. If you want an electronic instrument that has high quality onboard sound you have to pay big bucks. My wife has a Kawai piano that has a high quality onboard speaker system. It not only has some ten onboard speakers, it has a soundboard that is driven by a transducer. It's just like an acoustic. She paid $6,000 for it. A similar model that is portable (called a slab) is only $2,500. So you see, if you want high quality sound, you have to pay for a good speaker system. But it's not really a big deal. About $1,000 will do it. In today's world, pretty well all electronic instruments (accordions, pianos, arranger or synthesizer keyboards, organs, etc...) have sampled sounds that are as good as any concert quality acoustic instrument worth thousands. My SX900 and my wife's Kawai piano sampled sounds are better than any acoustic piano worth $50,000 or more. Despite what many people say on this forum, I claim that the sampled sounds on my FR-1xb and PSR-SX900 (it has accordion sounds) are as good as any acoustic accordion. But to realize that high quality, I have to feed them to a proper speaker system. It's just a fact of life. I have seen some accordionists at festivals using an FR-8x playing using their onboard speakers and stepping up to a microphone, as they would when using an acoustic accordion. That turns their $8,000 instrument into a $300 Walmart quality keyboard. However, by connecting the audio output to a proper stage mixer/amplifier/speaker system the sound is as good as any acoustic accordion. Even better because it eliminates stage feedback problems. Again, I love the FR-1xb. I sold my FR-4xb because I could no longer handle the weight. I'm a frail 78 years old. I miss the features of the FR-4x, but find my FR-1x to be perfectly adequate, and it's a lot easier to handle. Best of luck.

Paul... one suggestion... PARAGRAPHS please!

 

[Mullanphy]

Jerry,

I think he’s referring to a Roland FR-1x. The BK designation means he wants a black one. The 2024? Could mean he wants one made this year, not that it matters a lot.

What does matter is that I was reading the Teaching and Learning section here and if I’m not mistaken, he’s looking for a diatonic and the FR-1x is clearly a cba.

Thanks for answering @Alan Sharkis for me. What marks is as clearly CBA? Did I miss that among all the marketing gobbledy gook?

 

[Mullanphy]

BK 2024? = Black, this year?

Might be. I thought it might be Button blacK, this year, but I just copied and pasted it from a website.

 

[JerryPH]

Bk in the model means black. 2024, not sure about that one.

“I claim that the sampled sounds on my FR-1xb and PSR-SX900 (it has accordion sounds) are as good as any acoustic accordion.”
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[John M]

, . . . if you want high quality sound, you have to pay for a good speaker system. But it's not really a big deal. About $1,000 will do it. In today's world, . .

I completely agree. For a little over $1,000, you can buy a Bose L1 Pro8 portable line array system. It delivers 320 watts of RMS power. The treble line array has 8 treble speakers. I only play my 8X using the Bose. The on board speakers (even with audio boost) sound weak/feeble compared to the Bose. The highs are crystal clear and the lows have a full sound (L.F. 3db is at 45 Hz). This is really noticeable on the Left Hand Bass, especially with a "tuba" tone on the 8X. When I switch back to the on board speaker, I can barely hear the tuba bass sound.

The Hammond organ section is very important to me, so a big plus for me is to add the Micro Vent 122 Leslie simulator in series between the 8X output and the Bose input. Switching between Chorale (Slow) and Tremolo Fast) is merely a foot tap using the Micro Vent push button.

 

[dunlustin]

Mullanphy.
Roland tried a diatonic - the FR18. Discontinued v quickly, very unloved.
The FR1XB is a CBA - that is a chromatic that has one note per button.
If you've never played an accordion , DBA, CBA who cares.
The FR1XB will be fine for all the genres you list - even a red one would do!
Good luck with whatever you decide.
FWIW I came to CBA from diatonic - never a regret.
Another disadvantage - the USA seems to be a bit of a desert for Diatonics, especially if not into polka or Irish.

 

[Mullanphy]

Mullanphy.
Roland tried a diatonic - the FR18. Discontinued v quickly, very unloved.
The FR1XB is a CBA - that is a chromatic that has one note per button.
If you've never played an accordion , DBA, CBA who cares.
The FR1XB will be fine for all the genres you list - even a red one would do!
Good luck with whatever you decide.
FWIW I came to CBA from diatonic - never a regret.
Another disadvantage - the USA seems to be a bit of a desert for Diatonics, especially if not into polka or Irish.

I just checked the Sweetwater ad for the third time looking for what I missed concerning whether the instrument is diatonic or chromatic. Sweetwater's add states it is diatonic in the table of specs. Liberty Bellows claims in its listing headline it is chromatic but not in the specs. I can't find anything on Roland's page for it that says one way or the other.

I was told here last year that DBA would be most appropriate for the genre's I'm interested in playing. But, you're probably right - for someone with my lack of experience it won't matter.

EDIT: Just discovered the information that tells me it is a chromatic instrument, the C/B Griff, whatever that is.

 

[Mullanphy]

It's chromatic, not diatonic. If I'm wrong, I'm going to be VERY disappointed when UPS brings mine tomorrow!

See my edit in that post.

 

[dak]

I just checked the Sweetwater ad for the third time looking for what I missed concerning whether the instrument is diatonic or chromatic. Sweetwater's add states it is diatonic in the table of specs. Liberty Bellows claims in its listing headline it is chromatic but not in the specs. I can't find anything on Roland's page for it that says one way or the other.

I was told here last year that DBA would be most appropriate for the genre's I'm interested in playing. But, you're probably right - for someone with my lack of experience it won't matter.

EDIT: Just discovered the information that tells me it is a chromatic instrument, the C/B Griff, whatever that is.

A bag of terminology mixups I guess. CBAs are unisonoric instruments (same notes on push and pull) that come in two major flavors: B system and C system. "chromatic" actually means that all notes of the chromatic scale are available at the same time. "diatonic" means that a key part of the instrument only facilitates a diatonic scale (a club harmonica has two diatonic button rows in two keys a fifth apart and a third row with "help" buttons providing some or all missing notes less systematically). Now the problem is that there are things like a "chromatic harmonica" which essentially is a diatonic harmonica but you have a slider that will shift the instrument up one semitone. So the more proper description is "bisonoric", meaning that it has different notes on blow and draw.

Which brings us to the Irish button accordion in B/C which has two diatonic (and bisonoric) rows that are not a fifth but a semitone apart. Which means that it can play chromatic scales on either push or draw. In contrast to its mouth cousin, the "chromatic harmonica", it is generally but not universally called a "diatonic" instrument and certainly is a member of a fundamentally diatonic family.

So someone seeing an FR-1xb described as "B/C system" might assume that it isn't switchable between the (chromatic and unisonoric) B and C systems but that it has diatonic (and bisonoric) button rows starting with B and C, respectively (the "Shand Morino" adds a third row starting with C♯).

Easy to confuse for a marketing department not actually playing such instruments.

What we call CBA is always chromatic and unisonoric, and that's what the FR-1xb is, switchable between C system and B system (this choice is essentially a semi-permanent user choice, the kind of stuff that in times before computers would have been done with a small "DIP switch" in the internals of the instrument rather than conveniently outside).

 

[micahcowan]

I enjoy my FR-1xb, for what it is. @ChromaticPaul mentioned that the sounds are identical to the same sounds that are offered by the FR-4x/8x; however I feel compelled to say that I don't particularly like any of the sounds that the FR-1xb offers (or that are offered as "official" add-ons) - the FR-4x/8x have stock sounds that I find far superior to any of the ones available on my FR-1xb. Small wonder - the FR-1x(b) has 16 stock (accordion) sets, with only 4 user-customizable sets, whereas the 4xb has 67 stock (accordion) sets. That said, the ones I tend to use are sets 1-3, 1-4, and 2-4, and the add-on Dallapè Supermaestro IV set.

I also have to disagree with @ChromaticPaul about the speaker quality. It's pretty crap. It's totally fine for personal use in your own living room, but it's useless for anything outside or public, and equally useless for playing together with other musicians. With the volume knob turned all the way up, it's still slightly too soft to my taste for even just personal use. And it's all upper mids and highs, with no oomf to it.

With those things out of the way, it's a great instrument for the styles of music you mentioned (if you are playing for yourself, or else "plugged in"). I'm uncertain what you mean by "symphonic" (you thought that a better term, but I find it a bit ambiguous). If you just mean "able to play classical music", aka freebass music in the style of music from the Baroque and Classical eras, especially including the musical counterpoint common in Baroque and early Classical, then yes, it's pretty good for that (especially as those periods tended not to require as much range as Romantic and later "classical" periods did). If, on the other hand, you mean "playing music that sounds like a symphony", then no, Roland's sounds are woefully bad at that (IMO).

If we were talking about the FR-1x, I would say that you'd find the range very, very limiting (as it only has 2 octaves (26)); but the button version has 3 (37), which is quite decent (though I definitely still bump against those limits).

The instrument does feel a bit "cheap". The plastic buttons jostle and wiggle quite a bit more freely than any acoustic I've had my hands on, and I'm guessing the 4x and 8x (which I understand to have been manufactured elsewhere, historically) may not have that problem so badly. It does not in any way interfere with playing, it just lends it a feeling of "cheapness".

 

[ChromaticPaul]

micahcowan wrote:
I also have to disagree with @ChromaticPaul about the speaker quality. It's pretty crap. It's totally fine for personal use in your own living room, but it's useless for anything outside or public, and equally useless for playing together with other musicians.

However, I specifically said:
Concerning the sound, onboard speakers on most electronic instruments (including all V-Accordions) are not intended for performances. They are just mediocre monitors.

I also said:
In my music room I feed all my electronic instruments to a mixer board whose output is fed to a HiFi with proper 3-way speakers with 16" woofers. I mute all onboard speakers.

So yes. I agree with you. The onboard speakers are pretty crap. I never said they were any good in the first place. Indeed, I don't even consider them fine for personal use in my living room. I always mute onboard speakers on my V-Accordion, as well as my PSR-SX900 keyboard. I thought I was pretty clear about that.

 

[micahcowan]

However, I specifically said

Whoops! My apologies, I clearly misread you!

 

[ChromaticPaul]

Whoops! My apologies, I clearly misread you!

No problem. I know some of my comments are a bit long winded and hence a chore to read. So it's partly my fault. But I just wanted to make sure others don't get the idea that I've changed my mind about onboard monitor speakers. I've been telling people for years that they should stop using them.