Thanks Jerry. I did go into the MIDI parameters of the FR-8X via the tiny-screen menu and then referenced the manual. I intend to work on it in real-time with the FR-8X editor at some point when it's connected to the BK-7M.
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Roland BK-7M and FR-8X MIDI Frame Error and MIDI Disconnected
- Thread starter Thomas N
- Start date
Ventura
Been here for ages!
the thing is, the original description seemed to me like this problem
simply began to happen
not as a result of anything he did different than what he had
been doing for 10 years without issue
the FR8 presumably does not change it's own settings, so now that the
BK has been proven to be working correctly, the focus shifts to
what can happen in terms of wearing out that could have caused an FR8
to change it's behavior overnight
naturally, now the first step is a global backup and reset
if there are any testing routines that can be done, from the serevice manual
documentation, that is the second step
most digital device failures are either or, not marginal or cumulative
(like analog circuits can brown out or lose partial power yet still
sort of keep working) so there are a limited number of things that
might stress the run time working of the unit.. for example, if the onboard
RAM has developed bad spots that are causing errors or delaying components
form recieving their marching orders
if the potentiometers or other analog components on the accordion body
are partially failing for some reason or half stuck
if internal connections are oxidizing or have been stressed by body flexing
the actual MIDI daughterboard or optical chip that drives the midi output
may be having a partial failure or intermittent problem that is not noticeable
at first or without testing, but that is delaying the midi stream or dropping data
the FR8 can also be tested with a different MIDI device, just a basic
MIDI module like a sound canvas, and see how it behaves in a simpler
controller setting
this may require the boards in the FR8 be tested each independantly
(if they still have the capability to do that at the main repair center)
and swap out whatever board does not pass muster
lets hope for the best
simply began to happen
not as a result of anything he did different than what he had
been doing for 10 years without issue
the FR8 presumably does not change it's own settings, so now that the
BK has been proven to be working correctly, the focus shifts to
what can happen in terms of wearing out that could have caused an FR8
to change it's behavior overnight
naturally, now the first step is a global backup and reset
if there are any testing routines that can be done, from the serevice manual
documentation, that is the second step
most digital device failures are either or, not marginal or cumulative
(like analog circuits can brown out or lose partial power yet still
sort of keep working) so there are a limited number of things that
might stress the run time working of the unit.. for example, if the onboard
RAM has developed bad spots that are causing errors or delaying components
form recieving their marching orders
if the potentiometers or other analog components on the accordion body
are partially failing for some reason or half stuck
if internal connections are oxidizing or have been stressed by body flexing
the actual MIDI daughterboard or optical chip that drives the midi output
may be having a partial failure or intermittent problem that is not noticeable
at first or without testing, but that is delaying the midi stream or dropping data
the FR8 can also be tested with a different MIDI device, just a basic
MIDI module like a sound canvas, and see how it behaves in a simpler
controller setting
this may require the boards in the FR8 be tested each independantly
(if they still have the capability to do that at the main repair center)
and swap out whatever board does not pass muster
lets hope for the best
All good information Ventura.
Yes, this just seemed to happen out of the blue after years of use. First the intermittent MIDI Frame Errors. I discounted them because they were infrequent and didn't affect playing.
However, they became more frequent, and annoying for a few weeks. Then the MIDI Disconnect Errors which stopped the FR-8X chord changes from happening. These were also infrequent. This all progressed into being completely unable to connect the two devices. Factory resets on both didn't yield any results. At this stage it is impossible to connect the two together. Immediate and permanent MIDI Disconnect.
I intend to connect the FR-8X to my synth via MIDI IN and MIDI OUT and see if they can perform as expected. I would say the BK-7M and FR-8X worked perfectly for probably 7 years and countless hours of playing. The slow degradation in connection ultimately resulting in failure leads me to believe it's a component failure over time - not a one-time blown component somewhere in the chain. But whatever caused it has completely failed now and I'm pretty certain it's in the FR-8X. The BK-7M performs as expected connected to two different synths.
I’m sorry to hear that it’s now a full blown failure, but at this point it looks like a visit to a Roland repair centre is coming in its future. 
I'm near the Roland repair center in California. It's maybe a 30 minute drive. If I recall correctly you had the output jack board replaced in your FR-8X Jerry. I haven't taken it apart yet but I would imagine the MIDI ports are connected to that same module. I have three accordions and each one has something wrong with it now! The 960 has the Sennheiser microphones not working, the 930 just needs a complete overhaul, and the MIDI doesn't work on the FR-8X!I’m sorry to hear that it’s now a full blown failure, but at this point it looks like a visit to a Roland repair centre is coming in its future.
Ventura
Been here for ages!
well the mic circuit is super easy to troubleshoot..
just need an ohmmeter
assuming all connections are in place:
first thing to check is the battery connection and presence of voltage
second is remove battery and check for a short
third is look for an open circuit (broken wire/connection/trace)
output jack can fail plysically
just need an ohmmeter
assuming all connections are in place:
first thing to check is the battery connection and presence of voltage
second is remove battery and check for a short
third is look for an open circuit (broken wire/connection/trace)
output jack can fail plysically
You're right about all of that. I have an ohmmeter and all the tools. Most likely the connections directly to the 1/4" input jack. Just another one of my 200 projects I have lined up for me!!!
Ventura
Been here for ages!
ahh yes.. you need some around tuit's
i only have almost 'round ones at the moment
i only have almost 'round ones at the moment
The first 197 on my list are from my wife. The last three are my accordions.
I had the power board replaced, not sure that is the same part.
Maybe it was me as I did a post on modifying my output jack board To mount a more robust Switchcraft jack on my 8X as I was having intermittent connection problems with OEM Roland jacks.
Ventura
Been here for ages!
hey John, did you notice/note the physical type of optocoupler
feeding the midi port ? i am guessing it's on that board too..
usually they are in proximity
am thinking that is one possible suspect for the problem under discussion
is that board very large/complex ? i wonder if it might be available at a price that
would be experimentally useful for Thomas to try
feeding the midi port ? i am guessing it's on that board too..
usually they are in proximity
am thinking that is one possible suspect for the problem under discussion
is that board very large/complex ? i wonder if it might be available at a price that
would be experimentally useful for Thomas to try
I wasn't paying particular attention to the midi connectors but the following may help. In the attached photos that I took:
#1 You can see the 8X jack board where I changed out a Roland jack with a Switchcraft Jack.
#2 Shows the Midi connectors with the 16 pin connector on the jack board with wires going back into the 8X. I don't know if any of these go to the Midi connectors.
#3 Shows the Midi connectors and the output jacks
The panel with the midi connectors is very easy to lift off on the 8X. It would be worth a try to check the wiring for a bad connection to the midi connectors.
Attachments
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Ventura
Been here for ages!
thanks for the pics.. looks like discreet components, but
all surface mount tiny stuff.. too close for ME to try and swap
a chip.. i don't see it poking out, i think the optocoupler
for MIDI is typically a 6 leg IC..
all surface mount tiny stuff.. too close for ME to try and swap
a chip.. i don't see it poking out, i think the optocoupler
for MIDI is typically a 6 leg IC..
John M - Thank you for this! That is very simple to access. This may well be worth a swap out if I can get that MIDI board from Roland for a relatively decent price. I thought I had a Service Manual somewhere on my hard drive for the FR-8X that somebody posted awhile back. I'll search the forum here. Would be nice to see it schematically as well. And thank you Ventura for the suggestions!
EDIT: Found it! Courtesy of Jerry, of course!
Darn - that's a large PCB. Part (#7) in the Service Manual. Could be as simple as the MIDI connectors which would be easy to swap out as they connect to the board separately (I think). But that board is not going to be a cheap part.
Ventura
Been here for ages!
yeah Jerry is always generous about sharing stuff that can help others
Of course my MIDI circuit suspicion is just a guess, but has a chance since
the midi stream is involved.. it could just be carrying the problem from deeper
inside the beast.. but when you consider costs of shipping, time delays for
shop work and hourly rates, if there is an inexpensive (comparatively) solution
to try, yeah why not if it is easy enough to do
and John's work on the jack gives us an insight on that area
and you are studying the schematic, hopefully can trace it out
with your eyes and make an evaluation
i guess the schematic has the discreet IC parts numbers ? as i recall the
coupler was so ubiquitous and generic there were only a few part numbers
ever for them.. then newer smaller surface mount form factors with those
L shaped legs instead of the straight bug legged originals
Of course my MIDI circuit suspicion is just a guess, but has a chance since
the midi stream is involved.. it could just be carrying the problem from deeper
inside the beast.. but when you consider costs of shipping, time delays for
shop work and hourly rates, if there is an inexpensive (comparatively) solution
to try, yeah why not if it is easy enough to do
and John's work on the jack gives us an insight on that area
and you are studying the schematic, hopefully can trace it out
with your eyes and make an evaluation
i guess the schematic has the discreet IC parts numbers ? as i recall the
coupler was so ubiquitous and generic there were only a few part numbers
ever for them.. then newer smaller surface mount form factors with those
L shaped legs instead of the straight bug legged originals
