Rehersal time?

[JerryPH]

I have been taking accordion lessons and been in rehersals but I have never been told that we should write down a specific practice or rehersal plan. Do we need to do that?

I'm starting to think that I have never been told to write down such a plans because teachers do not know how to write a practice or rehersal plan and thwy require having concrete goals in mind (we might not always know what our concrete goals would be).

Rehearsing and practice are two similar and very distinctly different activities.

When you practice you are learning... be it personal improvement OR that piece that you will be performing in a group.

Rehearsal it is implicit that you already KNOW how to play your part of that song being performed in that group, you are NOT there to learn it from scratch but to sync up with the group and work on the PERFORMANCE.

Rehearsals are NOT the time to be learning the piece. If everyone practiced ONLY in rehearsals, I do not think many performances would ever happen!

As a young man I was part of an accordion orchestra. One of the most embarrassing moments I ever saw others experience was during one rehearsal one very complex part of the song was coming out pretty bad. The conductor pretty much "wasted" a good hour and made EVERY member of that orchestra play out their part of that 14 measure run. Not surprisingly, only about 1/3rd of the people actually did it properly (I was eternally happy to not have bee on his bad side that day and made the run properly).

He made it clear that for as long as we chose to be in this group, that we practice the scores at home. then promptly shook his baton and asked who wished to stay and who did not wish to stay, and that if we did stay, that we'd better know the music.

The conductor was my first music teacher and he was both amazing and giving when he saw you put in the time and effort, but brutal if you got lazy and quick to let you go if you did not want to be there... because of him, I was well prepared for my time in the conservatory. Many a time I felt his baton across my wrist or forearm... lol

It was safe to say that the following Sunday's rehearsal was near perfect and he proudly acknowledged and thanked everyone for their efforts.

 

[debra]

..

Rehearsals are NOT the time to be learning the piece. If everyone practiced ONLY in rehearsals, I do not think many performances would ever happen!

Oh, they do happen often. But... they're just not very good. I have experienced many such performances. (They are not all that enjoyable.)

 

[Tom]

I for one need to get back on the grim determination.

 

[Valski]

Rehearsals are NOT the time to be learning the piece. If everyone practiced ONLY in rehearsals, I do not think many performances would ever happen!

Practice is best done alone. Rehearsals are for the ensemble. You can all practice a piece very thoroughly but will still need to rehearse for a polished performance.

 

[JerryPH]

Practice is best done alone. Rehearsals are for the ensemble. You can all practice a piece very thoroughly but will still need to rehearse for a polished performance.

Either one without the other is a waste of tie and a guarantee that the performance will not be anywhere it could have been. I never implied thta one without the other was better, just that both had to happen.

Oh, they do happen often. But... they're just not very good. I have experienced many such performances. (They are not all that enjoyable.)

Exactly!

Stop practicing at rehearsals... and rehearse!

 

[Siegmund]

My comments are mostly from preparing for individual concerts, not for a gigging band that plays the same repertoire over and over (and needs many fewer rehearsals):

I've been noticing one thing about ensemble playing: some people in ensembles/bands see rehearsal time as practice time.

Part of the issue here is that we use this same word "rehearsal" for a series of meetings where the mood evolves rapidly. At a first rehearsal, we're all sight-reading new material together. When we stumble we back up and start again. This is rather a lot like practicing - with the important exception that if you stumble 2 or 3 times on the same passage, you mark it to work on at home and move on, rather than keep repeating it.

The second rehearsal is often like that too, because so many passages sound different when you hear the other voices, or you guess wrong which passages are exposed (must be perfect) and which are buried (hardly worth learning at all.)

But after that, yes, everyone should already know his own part, and be focused on how the parts get shaped into a whole.

They often do not know the tune(s) that well before going to the rehersal. They say that they are not really sure how the tune goes.

This depends on the piece of music. In the 21st century, we usually have options, except for very new or very obscure music.
But I think it's very normal that many of the musicians will be playing a song they don't know well and perhaps haven't ever heard before. Rehearsal may be the only place you can hear it. At a minimum, if you want musicians familiar with it, you have to provide them a recording you want them to listen to (if you just ask them to find their own, they'll all find different recordings with different interpretations.)
I think this one is on the director, to either make the tunes familiar to his players, or accept they will be learning at the rehearsals.

Do some people only like to learn in groups?
I am a person who find group learning very difficult and I find that combining rehersal and practice is very difficult.

Some do, I imagine -- and some are used to it (a lot of grew up having group lessons every day in school) and have never really learned how to study music productively on their own.

'Rehearse' suggests that the player has been given material to prepare and become familiar with before attending a group practice.

That's a nice ideal. I can count on the fingers of one hand how many times in the last 30 years I've been given material in advance.

When the music is rented (and for pieces new enough to still be in copyright, it's almost always rented), getting it early isn't even a theoretical possibility.

(And it assumes that the player will know what to do with it on their own. And most of them won't. "How to prepare a piece on your own" is a topic that is just not taught; we spend our whole musical lives playing pieces for the first time at a first rehearsal, or at a lesson with our teacher watching, who then tells us what to do for next week. unless you have a solo career. I had never really done it before I learned accordion.)

 

[boxplayer4000]

Rehearsal time can be greatly helped by sending pre-recorded music, along with the written music to those musicians who are going to be involved. They could play and practice their parts before coming together for, hopefully, a final practice run before a studio recording or perhaps public performance. (Things have reached a stage, of course, where recordings are being made while the musicians are miles apart).


About 35 years ago I made the recording below to send to a 2nd. accordion player, piano/bass player and drummer. (I couldn’t add the drum part). (I think CDs would be used 35 years ago... remember them?) The set was preparation for a Scottish band competition and the performance was supposed to show how accurate and ’tight’ the sound was, along with good changes from one tempo to another, all with good arrangements. The set comprises Scottish, Irish and North American tunes.

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[Harrytulipan]

Is writing out a plan on a paper or a whiteboard really important?
Or is it enough to just talk about what the focus should be?

When would a written plan be of utmost importance?

 

[Tom]

Is writing out a plan on a paper or a whiteboard really important?
Or is it enough to just talk about what the focus should be?

When would a written plan be of utmost importance?

As with everything else, Harry, it's "different strokes for different folks." What works for "someone" or "everyone" may not work for you, and vice versa.

The written plan is of utmost importance when it is used by he or she for whom a writhen plan is of utmost importance. See where it's going here?

This could be for a band as well as an individual.

My experience says that what is more important even than the plan is the goal. What do you want to accomplish? If you made the perfect 45 minute demo video in 6 months, what would it be? How would it differ from what you play now? Would you sing? Would you play polkas or classical? Would you have backing tracks or a band? Would you smile or move your body more?

Once you have a goal, the plan helps get you there. Then you can make a detailed or general plan to get there.

Let's take an example of someone we know. Maybe their goal is to play a different, more interesting one hour set of music at this summer's farmer markets. A realistic, and achievable goal that is also time constrained.

The written plan can then include a list (and lead sheets) of the music and some basic elements. For example, "play through and record the entire repertoire, noting specific areas that you screwed up. Then work for 20 minutes on each of those areas." Or, "Play the entire repertoire at least once per week, but the "hard" songs get work in daily, 30 minute segments."

Other people have more general goals, such as "I will develop fluidity in the basic fundamentals." This includes plans such as the familiar "scales for 20 minutes, arpeggios for 8, etc."

We've been through this all before a hundred times but it always bears beating the dead horse, as they say. Anyway, there are plans, and there are people who follow them. The bigger, harder question is who do you want to be?

And most importantly, Good luck, You can do it!

 

[Alan Sharkis]

I was in a small amateur band a few years ago. Since our focus shifted back and fourth between preparing to play for some affair and just getting together to have fun, it was easy for some of the guys to show up without having practiced anything. So, we'd sometimes yell at each other for not having practiced and then laugh it off, and other times yell at each other and mean it. Too bad those days are gone, along with three of the five of us. I miss it, and I miss them.

 

[Harrytulipan]

I started to think about this. The question "what is the difference between rehersal time and jamming time?" seems a bit strange to me in many ways.

Isn't the whole idea of a rehersal to play through songs, right? But that is what we do at a jam session as well, right?

It seems to me that the both practice time rehersal time have a more clear goal in mind.
I mean, it seems to me that for both you work on specific issues.

At a jam session you would not work on specific issues but...for both jam and rehersal people play through the tunes.
This is why to me rehersal time can reminds me of a jam session.
The difference being that at a jam session you might not have a list of tunes to be played.

But when jamming around with eg a friend you might try different way of playing a song.
It is not all about playing though songs although the jam session at the local pub focus on it but then that is a performance (but just not that prepared or rehersed).

When you think you ask easy questions you do not.

What do you think?

Let's take a real situation.
Me and a friend is starting a band.
We just want to gather together and try playing some songs and see what would work best for us.
Would that need a rehersal time? Do we need to have specific and serious goals? Or do we just play and have fun?

I always found jam sessions to be hard. Why? You have to memorize many tunes and you cannot care about the result. You also have to know exactly what you are good at. Some people try to play songs that they yet do not know that well or play think that they can sing and play accordion at the same time (I am guilty of that).
What do you think?

 

[debra]

I started to think about this. The question "what is the difference between rehersal time and jamming time?" seems a bit strange to me in many ways.

Isn't the whole idea of a rehersal to play through songs, right? But that is what we do at a jam session as well, right?

It seems to me that the both practice time rehersal time have a more clear goal in mind.
I mean, it seems to me that for both you work on specific issues.

....

Rehearsal time is intended for a group of players who have practiced songs to the extent that they can play their part without obvious errors, to then bring all the parts together and turn it into a musical ensemble piece. One of the (quintet) ensembles I play in is preparing for a contest (in two years time) where we will be playing three compositions (together about 18 minutes). When we have a rehearsal it takes about 3 hours (plus 1 hour for two breaks) and we really struggle to make progress to our own satisfaction on all three pieces in one rehearsal. We easily work on a single piece for an hour, sometimes an hour and a half, continuously improving how it sounds and trying to turn the notes (which we master) into music worthy of presenting to an audience (and hopefully to a jury in two years time). That's rehearsing! We can also happily work on just two out of the three pieces in three hours time and certainly not be bored.
When you are jamming with friends you would never spend three hours on just three songs... That's the difference.

 

[Harrytulipan]

Rehearsal time is intended for a group of players who have practiced songs to the extent that they can play their part without obvious errors, to then bring all the parts together and turn it into a musical ensemble piece. One of the (quintet) ensembles I play in is preparing for a contest (in two years time) where we will be playing three compositions (together about 18 minutes). When we have a rehearsal it takes about 3 hours (plus 1 hour for two breaks) and we really struggle to make progress to our own satisfaction on all three pieces in one rehearsal. We easily work on a single piece for an hour, sometimes an hour and a half, continuously improving how it sounds and trying to turn the notes (which we master) into music worthy of presenting to an audience (and hopefully to a jury in two years time). That's rehearsing! We can also happily work on just two out of the three pieces in three hours time and certainly not be bored.
When you are jamming with friends you would never spend three hours on just three songs... That's the difference.

Rehearsal time is intended for a group of players who have practiced songs to the extent that they can play their part without obvious errors, to then bring all the parts together and turn it into a musical ensemble piece. One of the (quintet) ensembles I play in is preparing for a contest (in two years time) where we will be playing three compositions (together about 18 minutes). When we have a rehearsal it takes about 3 hours (plus 1 hour for two breaks) and we really struggle to make progress to our own satisfaction on all three pieces in one rehearsal. We easily work on a single piece for an hour, sometimes an hour and a half, continuously improving how it sounds and trying to turn the notes (which we master) into music worthy of presenting to an audience (and hopefully to a jury in two years time). That's rehearsing! We can also happily work on just two out of the three pieces in three hours time and certainly not be bored.
When you are jamming with friends you would never spend three hours on just three songs... That's the difference.

Why wouldnit difficult to play a song together that you already can play?
Why not just play your part you already know?
Why would it be difficult to play a song in a group even if you already know the song?

 

[Ventura]

well harry, there is an extended thing to think about

the question of the arrangement of the song/songs

if the band is provided with arrangements to "practice" at home,
fine, but many bands DO seem to "finalize" their arrangements
during practice sessions

you see, the band rather must know at some point EXACTLY how
the songs are to be presented during performance

because on the Gig, there really is no room for anything
except doing a good job.. playing the songs without
clutter or hesitance or trepidation..

so each song, in the context of the band, actually has
(by the time practice and/or rehearsals are completed)
a right way to be played.. and being in a band implies a tacit
understanding and agreement between members to
do things right

(chaos onstage is unwelcome, and unprofessional)

so i see a grey area between practice and rehearsal..

i probably have said this before, but back in the day steady Gig's
were 4 hours long.. 4 sets.. and often the last half of the last set
was often given over to new songs that one or the other of us would
have worked out and brought to the band.. now typically these
would be current hits or other standards which we all would have
been somewhat familiar with, and we all had good chops, so
literally no-one still in the club/restaurant could ever tell we were
actually practicing songs for the "first" time

the only times we would meet in a specific and separate practice
session would be because of upcoming special gigs like a Wedding
with odd song requests which one of us would have had to work
on the arrangement before the rest of the Band tried it.. usually
melody lines with the hooks clearly noted, chord charts, etc.
Such sessions were also when we learned European contemporary
or worked on some special ethnic request mentioned by a regular
customer (hence, Saigon Tep Lem and other such entered our repertoir)
once San Remo or Eurovision had their yearly event Joe
or myself would choose a couple standout songs to work up..
often these tunes would have never been heard by average USA ears
until introduced at practice, and then, later, sprung on our unsuspecting
audiences (which in the Wash. DC area could, at any moment, have
people from anywhere around the world in for Dinner and Dancing)

but the key thing is, once we finished a song, that was it and the song would
be played that exact way (excepting light jazzing things up, which does not
change the number of measures, timing, or chords) forever.. at every gig
it got "called" at..

and this falls back again to our Duty as Professionals in the context of
such gigs.. the audience deserves to receive entertainment that enhances
their total experience at the event/establishment and all the efforts it
may have taken us to GET to that point should be invisible to them

ciao

 

[jozz]

Isn't the whole idea of a rehersal to play through songs, right? But that is what we do at a jam session as well, right?

...

Let's take a real situation.
Me and a friend is starting a band.
We just want to gather together and try playing some songs and see what would work best for us.
Would that need a rehersal time? Do we need to have specific and serious goals? Or do we just play and have fun?

What do you think?

semantics

for me the whole idea of rehearsing is to 'prepare for showtime': together you practice intro's, breaks, endings, stage presence and such. You practice your own parts at home, if necessary.
starting out and experimenting, trying stuff out: falls more towards jamming
that said, in rehearsal we can change stuff around if somebody has great input then and there, at least I'm always open to that

 

[Tom]

Jozz nailed it right there! A rehearsal implies an upcoming performance, either scheduled or intended. That's the "real" meaning (for a bunch of people who can't even define the word "accordion.")

That's not to say you can't jam at a rehearsal, or rehearse at a jam....

I miss rehearsals in my new town. Maybe I will go to a jam on Saturday.

 

[Ventura]

Jazz makes good points Harry..

even for the simplest most casual "band" of musicians,
it really helps if each song has an actual "Intro" that you all will recognize
(in noisy situations where you might not hear the song name being called)
it helps if you always end the song in it's own unique way too
(so not all songs end sounding the same)

many bands also have rehearsed a specific short riff or half song
they always play to signal "end of set.. going on break"

 

[Tom]

Ventura makes good points too! Plus people have the opportunity to try out new solos (fills, accompaniment) along with the rest of the band. We want to make sure we got this right before we get to Carnegie Hall on Saturday. I need to start a new band, like, now. Anyone moving to Wisconsin soon?

 

[Harrytulipan]

Jozz nailed it right there! A rehearsal implies an upcoming performance, either scheduled or intended. That's the "real" meaning (for a bunch of people who can't even define the word "accordion.")

That's not to say you can't jam at a rehearsal, or rehearse at a jam....

I miss rehearsals in my new town. Maybe I will go to a jam on Saturday.

I see, I think.
It is a lot about having a performance in mind.
What then do we call what I am talking about?

 

[Tom]

I see, I think.
It is a lot about having a performance in mind.
What then do we call what I am talking about?

It has to do with semantics and what you intend the words to mean. "Rehearsal" and "practice" are often used interchangeably. For ME, "practice" means repeatedly doing something in order to improve, or retain it, either solo or with others. "Rehearsal" means preparing something for an upcoming performance of some kind. So, the band can practice at the rehearsal, or while rehearsing. If the players have no intention of playing for others, (like in your situation?), they could be "playing," "jamming," "practicing," but not "rehearsing." This is just a strict, literal interpretation. Of course many bands, or solo players, consider themselves to be "rehearsing," even if they never intend to play live. There is no real answer. For example, is a Roland fr8x an accordion? Is that blonde real? Only her/his hairdresser knows for sure.