Quint tuning

[Eddy Yates]

I have a Tiger Combo accordion with quint tuning. I really love the tuning and have found a lot of interesting uses for it. I also love the Tiger for its wild looks, but it's a pretty crude beast in many ways. It's in good shape for its age, but is out of tune, and certainly never had the subtlety and bellows control that my Bugari has. It has to have a complete tuning for sure, but am wondering if anyone knows of a higher end 72 bass or full-size P.A. with quint tuning. Or if it makes sense to ask a manufacturer to tune one of the M banks as a quint. I imagine that that's a bit different than just slapping the digital tuner on it and would require a lot of "ear judgment".  Thanks.

 

[debra]

Can you elaborate what you mean by "quint tuning"?
Thanks.

 

[Dingo40]

This may be relevant to the discussion?



Another:



One more?

 

[Morne]

You cannot achieve this with just a tuning job. The quint register needs reeds that are offset by a fifth. Since these reeds are higher than what you would have on the second reed block of an MM accordion, the reeds might be smaller in some cases so youll probably have to make changes to the reed block as well (filling gaps).

Jim D and others mentioned this a few years ago:
https://www.accordionists.info/showthread.php?tid=3021&pid=31419#pid31419

 

[JIM D.]

To convert a box to quint tuning you will need reed replacement & reed block altering.
I've done this for myself some years back. I my case it was quite inexpensive as I have donor accordions I keep for parts.
If you do it your self you will need a set of clarinet and a set of piccolo reeds. Also the reed blocks with need to be altered for reed fit. Works well with a LMH accordion - use the clarinet reed blocks and use LM for your Quint you will loose the M set but LH will work well. If you have a LMMH you will loose the use of M & MM set.
(Just a note) The new digital models of Roland & Evo can be programmed for a quint effect.

 

[debra]

Thanks for the explanations, Morne and Jim and others.
I was mislead by the term "tuning" in "quint tuning" when in fact a "quint register" was intended.
There are some accordions that come with a quint register. It is generally rarely used. The main reason is that it is too loud compared to the other reeds. You would like "a bit of fifth" added to the sound, but on an accordion it can only be "a lot".
Like Morne and Jim say, you cannot simply move the reeds over because they will be the wrong size (and you will be missing some at one end.

 

[Eddy Yates]

Thanks for the information, all.
Jim, I’ve heard recordings of the Gary Dahl Jazz/Continental accordion made by Beltuna. That uses the piccolo reeds you reference. Those who know the Tiger know the wild sound I’m talking about. Not subtle at all. It sounds to me that it uses another set of M reeds up a fifth, but I could be wrong. I’ll make a recording so you can hear....the regular reeds have some not-quite-painful out of tune-ness, but I’ll do my best. It’s certainly not for most regular repertoire.

---

Morne and Paul,
Thanks. I had read that post and you all called it “quint tuning”, so I just continued the usage. Sorry for any confusion.
Recording to follow.

 

[Eddy Yates]

Here’s a pretty good demo of the Tiger’s sound. From Liberty Bellows:
[video=youtube]

 

[debra]

Here’s a pretty good demo of the Tiger’s sound. From Liberty Bellows:

Thats an excellent demonstration of why a quint register is not all that useful: the quint is too loud.

 

[John M]

I agree with Paul.  I really dont like the sound.  In case anyone is interested, here is another demo from Liberty Bellows that has a little more detail on the quint tuning.  The link is:
  
John M.

 

[Eddy Yates]

Yes, I agree, if you play classics and standards, the Quint reeds are just too raucous. However.....if you’re rocking or screaming, then....
I can see now why a lot of guitarists have a big bunch of guitars.
I can also see why a lot of Accordionists have an ideal accordion.
Not saying any choice is wrong or right. Just saying it’s a big old world, gentlemen.

 

[debra]

I agree with Paul.  I really dont like the sound.  In case anyone is interested, here is another demo from Liberty Bellows that has a little more detail on the quint tuning.  The link is:
  
John M.

The basic idea of a quint register is to emphasize the second harmonic. So the LMQ register makes sense as M is the first harmonic above L and Q is the second harmonic above L. That actually does not sound bad together, and for it to sound really well L and M need to be louder, i.e. in cassotto as cassotto amplifies the (base frequency of the) sound. The MQ register makes little sense as the quint is an octave lower than what it should be to be the second harmonic.

 

[JeffJetton]

And here's me playing around with the Quint reeds:



I agree that the most-sensible setting is LQ, and for the very reasons Paul mentions. Not to make it sound like I'm playing two separate notes for every key pressed (like MQ would), but to get that upper harmonic sound on each note played.

It's sort of like playing a Hammond organ with the first two drawbars pulled out.

 

[Eddy Yates]

Yeah, Jeff, your page on the Tiger is great.
I think there’s a use for every sound if you’re not playing somebody else’s music.
Gnome sane?
My question wasn’t whether or not anybody LIKED the sound. It was if anyone knows of a modern accordion with the voices tuned a fifth apart. I have a use for it. That’s all.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Yeah, Jeff, your page on the Tiger is great.
I think there’s a use for every sound if you’re not playing somebody else’s music.
Gnome sane?
My question wasn’t whether or not anybody LIKED the sound. It was if anyone knows of a modern accordion with the voices tuned a fifth apart. I have a use for it. That’s all.

I read somewhere that Gary Dahl had Beltuna make him an accordion with quint tuning and that for a while Beltuna was actually selling such an accordion and naming it the “Gary Dahl’ model.

 

[Eddy Yates]

Thanks, Alan. Looks like Castiglione had one of those made by Beltuna. Maybe not quite as crazy sounding as the Tiger.

 

[debra]

Thanks, Alan. Looks like Castiglione had one of those made by Beltuna. Maybe not quite as crazy sounding as the Tiger.

AKKO sells a bayan with quint register: http://www.bayanakko.ru/catalog/gotovovibornie-1/bayan-akko-akkokvinta.html.
It is a 5 voice instrument with LMMHQ. It's 16.5kg (2.5 heavier than my bayan) so definitely not for everyone...