Piano vs. Piano Accordion

[nathen]

When I switched from playing the piano for umpteen years to the pa, my instructer warned me that the pa was not to be mistaken for a small piano. They are two completely different instruments. The piano is a percussion string instrument. When the hammer hits the string the note starts to fade, the fingers are then free to move to any other note, consequently the thumb doesn't have to be used for black keys.

The pa (on the other hand, no pun intended) is a reed instrument, and the note will continue as long as air is passing through it. Plus it can be louder or quieter depending on bellows pressure, making expression much more subtle than percussion instruments (my opinion).

Therefore there is a need to move away from the strict rules of piano fingering. For example, when playing a chord and holding it, the thumb can play other notes as harmony, wheras with the piano the whole hand is available. So the pa need a different approach to treble fingering. There is a need for more creative fingering than the piano, given the sustaining note ability of the pa.

There, now I've thrown in my ten cents worth!!!

Nathen

 

[simonking]

Correct - it's completely different. The only similarity is the look of the right hand keyboard. Having played the piano is some help with this though. With the chromatic button accordion, any illusion of similarity completely disappears.

 

[Anyanka]

Baby, bathwater... Piano fingering exercises come in handy on the p/accordion anyhow, even though one doesn't have to adhere strictly to anything. Tweed regularly gets us to practise scales & arpeggios, and although she does not have a piano background, she recommends the same fingering as my old ABRSM scale books!

 

[simonking]

Yeah, I stick to the same mostly. I've noticed that piano fingering falls apart a bit however, once you get to the top (in pitch, the bottom physically) of the keyboard.

 

[Glenn]

I think PA fingering is something that must be made fit for purpose.
If you want to hold a three note chord and use thumb and first finger to play a counter melody thus will involve right hand contortions that would be unheard of on the piano.

 

[nathen]

Thanks Glenn,

That was exactly my point, although I was a bit more long winded!!!

Nathen

 

[george garside]

The thing that many pianists coming to box playing don't realise is that the keys/buttons are effectively on/off switches and do not control the volume etc of the box as they do an a piano.

On a piano its how you press the keys that matters. On a box its how you let go of them that matters

george

 

[Glenn]

That's very true George. It's hard not to tense your right arm and hand when playing loudly when coming from piano. You need concious effort not to do it.
One tip is to film yourself playing and watch where ou obviously put finger pressure for no reason. If you watch top players, their fingers just lightly move around the keyboard.

 

[george garside]

playing the keys on a box is abit like ''plucking the string on a fiddle or other stringy thing. Znother way of looking at it is that on a piano you bounce ''on'' a key but on a box you bounce 'off'' a key!

george

 

[goldtopia]

Yes, even with MIDI that has piano among the instrument choice, its not the same, it still sounds electronic. I had MIDI installed in a Weltmeister 72 bass Achat and I'm disappointed. I am considering taking lessons from a MIDI Roland player to see if its my fault that I can't play MIDI accordion. The playing technique is obviously much different.

 

[jarvo]

The dynamics of the two are completely different......a piano key is weighted and damped which gives you some resistance and so does a good electronic keyboard set up....an Accordion keyboard is like a flappy thing with no feedback whatsoever (to the pianist) because it has no real resistance and so striking with different velocities makes no odds.........not so far as I can tell....so yes as piano player coming via the keyboard to the Accordion I am struggling with the dynamic......I actually prefer the " feel " of the Stradella side..................I have been messing around with the piano since about 12 yrs old....I have had two accordions for not yet two years........it's a no brainer that piano technique will overtake the right hand.....there may be only one thing for it !!

 

[george garside]

accordion keys need to return rapidly after playing a note whereas on a piano its less important as the note will stop of its own accord. Box makers in their infinite wisdom have facilitated this rapid rise by fitting return springs to the keys!! . The springs are designed to retun a key and close a pallet quicker than letting the key rise against the finger would. It is therefore vital whether playing staccato or legato to get the finger rapidly OFF the key when you have done with a note so the spring can do its work unhindered by a (relatively) slow rising finger!

Easier to do than explain!

george

 

[jarvo]

Actually George ( not falling out with you about this, lets's be clear at the outset) the piano note will ring out ,( but also will "decay" as will any plucked or struck string)
until it is released and puts the damper back on the string...... so similar but more subtle than the PA key which is on/off........and on the piano the note/key will respond as to how it is struck/pressed....hit it hard and it will be loud and caress it gently it will be soft...hence the name pianoforte, Soft Loud..

The PA does not do this ...that function comes from the bellows,which I believe that you have previously stressed.

The spring to which you refer on the PA keyboard does not give the " push back " feel to the finger that the mechanism in a piano does.......The PA will sound as long as the pallet is clear of the opening and I think that the PA is more like an Organ in this respect.....where piano players come unstuck, in my own experience is that they get no differential in the note no matter what velocity they use in striking/pressing/caressing the key.....they ...I...come unstuck initially until you get the hang of the bellows input and "get off the key" trick.......

I think that it is fair to say that apart from similarity in layout the two instruments have little in common as to playing technique.......in fact I think that pianists have a disadvantage initially, organists or those used to a "blown" instrument probably have a better head start........

 

[george garside]

Jarvo I didn't go into detail about decay and damper etc on piano as I was more concerned with what needs doing differently on the box. It would seem that we are in complete agreement !

george

 

[JIM D.]

Electronic piano keyboards have keys that are velocity sensitive and pressure sensitive and are capable of reproducing the sounds of a piano. An acoustic accordion that has midi installed will never sound well with the piano programs as the keyboard does not have these features. Roland accordions on the other hand have keyboards that are velocity sensitive and pressure sensitive and reproduce piano sounds as well as an electronic piano keyboard. JIM D.

 

[jarvo]

Electronic piano keyboards have keys that are velocity sensitive and pressure sensitive and are capable of reproducing the sounds of a piano. An acoustic accordion that has midi installed will never sound well with the piano programs as the keyboard does not have these features. Roland accordions on the other hand have keyboards that are velocity sensitive and pressure sensitive and reproduce piano sounds as well as an electronic piano keyboard. JIM D.

Which is why I have bitten the bullet and bought an FR1X :ch .......but keep it strictly between you and me Jim.......doh,theyre reading this arent they !! :roll:

 

[Glenn]

Congratulations of your new purchase.
Look forward to hearing what you can do with it (not a cue for a joke....)

 

[jarvo]

Congratulations of your new purchase.
Look forward to hearing what you can do with it (not a cue for a joke....)

Not fair....that begs loads of gags........ :b

 

[JIM D.]

Electronic piano keyboards have what is called Velocity Sensitive and Pressure Sensitive (Aftertoutch pitch) keys and reproduce the sound of a piano accurately. An acoustic accordion that has a MiDi installation will play piano sounds from an expander but but the keys only send a MiDi signal without expression. The Roland V-Accordions however have piano programs that are not controlled by the bellows but are controlled by the Velocity and Pressure keyboards or buttons they have and reproduce piano sounds not unlike an Electronic keyboard. JIM D.