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Piano Accordion For Beginners.

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smdc66

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TomBR said:
mirror image .....


i was thinking of this pic format as i have a beginners book too which she co wrote - i remember being confused by a diagram for ages which turned out to be mirror imaged

i dont really use the book now due to time and my preference to focus on other styles of music and ways of learning and would probably be confused still by this format of diagram

i presumed in my little experience there was a good reason for this mirror image layout (but i didnt like it) :geek:
 
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dak

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JerryPH said:
Another popular term used to describe these kinds of horses are the Lipizzaner horses of Vienna, Austria, born almost completely black in colour and by ages 6-9 almost completely white.
Uh no? Lippizzans are a breed, not a color. About 90% of Lippizzans are indeed Gray horses, and particularly the Spanish Court Riding School in Vienna has traditionally only employed those (I think they softened up by now). But the white color is merely dominant in Lippizzans, not pervasive.

Not that this has any relation to accordions: basically this was just a comment on the experts making mistakes no beginner would do example. In my defense, my house community includes a riding teacher (and her 9 horses) and the owner of a black white horse, now 4 years old, and getting whiter every year (some wholly white areas, and graying all around).
 

geoff45789

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JerryPH said:
But the white color is merely dominant in Lippizzans, not pervasive.

Not that this has any relation to accordions:
[/quote]

A bit of a tenuous relationship perhaps but my favourite piece for playing on the accordion is the theme to White Horses - the 70s TV programme featuring the Lippizzanas
 

JerryPH

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dak said:
Ok, ok Mr know-it all... I get it.

geoff45789 said:
A bit of a tenuous relationship perhaps but my favourite piece for playing on the accordion is the theme to White Horses - the 70s TV programme featuring the Lippizzanas
Im waiting for when he corrects you and says that theyre 90% gray too. :roll:

Anyway, back to on topic... so it looks like the confusion was a purposeful mirrored image in the book that stirred all this ?
 

Stephen Hawkins

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I seem to have much in common with the breed of horse under discussion, as I am also very grey. (English spelling)

Be that as it may, the book to which I refer does appear misleading. I was smart enough to realise that the diagram was a mirror image, especially as it was written at the bottom of the page.

The problem arises because the diagram of the treble side has brackets which relate to the size of the keyboard, and the brackets for the 72 Bass do not correspond to the instrument. This has been confirmed by my accordion tutor (a professional musician), who has now rectified the problem.

As he was curious about this matter, I have allowed him to borrow the book for a while. A member of his trio is in some way related to Karen Tweed, so he will inform her of this mistake. As the book is not currently in my possession, I am unable to refer to it at the moment.

As previously stated, I started this thread in the hope that other inexperienced accordionists could avoid the frustration of attempting to follow a diagram which leads them astray. I am not in any way attempting to denigrate Karen Tweed's credibility, I am merely relating my own experience with her book.

I could have manfully struggled on in a vain attempt to get tunes right, but am fortunate to have a very experienced accordion player who could put me back on the right track. If he says it's wrong ..... it's wrong!

Stephen Hawkins.
 

Happy girl

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Never the less, it is important that the author of this thread makes a better effort to substantiate his opinion in a manner which will satisfy the reader.

To claim the book is not currently in his possession, therefore he is unable to refer to it at the moment, seems like a cop-out to me. A phone call to his teacher requesting precise information would have been the most prudent thing to do in order to settle this matter once & for all.

I just wish he had been ‘smart enough’ to realise the effect such a sweeping statement would have on those who are happily studying this publication.

In the meanwhile he is providing no definite proof to demonstrate his conclusion; it seems to me he expects us to take his word for it without allowing us the benefit of checking it out for ourselves.
 

Glenn

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I would hardly imagine a chart of treble keyboard ranges is of much importance in a book for absolute beginners. More important is where is middle C.
 

george garside

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Glenn said:
I would hardly imagine a chart of treble keyboard ranges is of much importance in a book for absolute beginners. More important is where is middle C.

Precisely ! aand the same goes for the bass. I usually give beginners a standard 120 bass chart whatever the size of their box and simply explain that the diagonal row with the dimple is C which they will have and that they go up or down from that as even on a 48 bass box they are unlikely to run out of bass for a considerable time.

george
 
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dak

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Stephen Hawkins said:
The problem arises because the diagram of the treble side has brackets which relate to the size of the keyboard, and the brackets for the 72 Bass do not correspond to the instrument. This has been confirmed by my accordion tutor (a professional musician), who has now rectified the problem.
There is really no standard treble range for 72-bass piano accordions as far as I am aware. 120 bass accordions quite generally have 41 keys in standard range starting at F and ending at A, and 96/37 is also pretty established (F to F I think). But 72 is just iffy. Most start at G like a violin, but looking at current Ebay links (apologies to people reading this thread at a time when those are no longer valid) I see a Brandoni with 30 keys. Within the first minute of looking at the results of a search for all piano accordions with 72 basses. 34 keys will be more usual but by no means universal.
 

TomBR

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Stephen Hawkins said:
The problem arises because the diagram of the treble side has brackets which relate to the size of the keyboard, and the brackets for the 72 Bass do not correspond to the instrument. This has been confirmed by my accordion tutor (a professional musician), who has now rectified the problem.

OK Stephen, you totally relied on the brackets and didnt look at the pattern of black keys? Accordions vary as this has shown.
The bracket showed a different range from your accordion. Fair enough for a total beginner to be a bit confused, but it would take anyone a bit more experienced half a second to see and explain.
Im not criticising you or blaming you for making a simple mistake, but it does you no credit to blame the book. It doesnt need a professional musician to point out that your accordion is different from the chart.

Its worth noting that Karen Tweed is one of best liked and most respected accordion players in this country.
 

george garside

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as is Dave Mallinson (Mally) the co author ,publisher and box player! (and long standing friend)

george
 

Stephen Hawkins

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Happy Girl,

You are accusing me of telling a falsehood; that much is plain to see. Your description of me is, however, completely at variance with my character. I have not lied in any part of my account, nor am I the sort of man who would "cop out".

My thread is what it is, and was written only to alert people to a possible mistake in a publication. What you think of me is quite irrelevant in my eyes, especially given the intensity of your disapproval.

Let me tell you this: I don't have to prove myself to you or anyone else, nor will your barbed comments alter a single thing that I have written. However, if I am proved to be right in my assertion, I will expect from you an apology and a retraction.

It has taken a lifetime to build a reputation for honesty and decency, and it is something I prize above gold. My family, friends and everyone I know would laugh at your description of me.

Stephen Hawkins.
 

george garside

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Oh dear ! this thread is degenerating into a mountain out of mole hill job which I am sure nether Stephen or anybody else intended. So in the interests of musical harmony can we get back to talking about what we all have in common i.e boxes

george :( {} :ch
 

Stephen Hawkins

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It is regrettable that long standing associations get in the way of reasonable debate, a situation which I now appear to have fallen foul of.

Thank goodness that my character allows me to accept that my friends, of however many years, are capable of making mistakes, and that I do not launch character attacks on people who claim that my friends have made a mistake.

I am sure that Karen Tweed is a terrific accordionist and a wonderful person, and I never dreamed that she was anything but. That in no way diminishes the fact that the publication which bears her name has caused me problems, or that an expert accordionist has now set me on the right track.

If, as some people have suggested, the variety of keyboard size on 72 Bass instruments is the cause of my frustration, surely this should be clearly explained beneath the diagram. Remember, this book is aimed squarely at Absolute beginners, and the Author should take into account that absolute beginners (as the title suggests) may never have picked up an instrument before in their lives.

Stephen Hawkins.
 
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dak

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TomBR said:
Im not criticising you or blaming you for making a simple mistake, but it does you no credit to blame the book. It doesnt need a professional musician to point out that your accordion is different from the chart.

Its worth noting that Karen Tweed is one of best liked and most respected accordion players in this country.
Well, that would make her more rather than less likely to fall into the trap of overgeneralizing her ample experience supported by instruments in her possession without extensive research. To be fair, I have seen a number of diagrams for bass and (button) treble ranges suggesting definitive statements that just dont apply to all instruments. In the case of treble ranges of CBA even more than with piano accordions, any definite range given is likely more often wrong than right since Im rather skeptical that there is any arrangement reliably above 50% of market penetration.
 

Happy girl

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Up to this point, no-one else has confirmed that the publication is ‘wrong’, or even agreed with his opinion that it is ‘way out’

I hope that this thread does not support anyone else to ‘lose confidence’ in this book.
 
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dak

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Stephen Hawkins said:
It has taken a lifetime to build a reputation for honesty and decency, and it is something I prize above gold.
Youd probably fare better if your communications didnt more or less suggest that you consider this differentiating you from everybody else.
 
D

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Happy girl said:
Up to this point, no-one else has confirmed that the publication is ‘wrong’, or even agreed with his opinion that it is ‘way out’

I hope that this thread does not support anyone else to ‘lose confidence’ in this book.


Good point Happy girl
I dont think people will lose confidence in the book. It has been a folk standard beginner reference work for a few years now and like Mallys other books it has been generally well received. :)
 

landro

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After reading thru the thread , can I just assume the OP`s 72 bass might just be a bit different than the one described in the book ? Is that really what all 4 pages of the thread is about?
 

artidots

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george garside said:
Oh dear ! this thread is degenerating into a mountain out of mole hill job which I am sure nether Stephen or anybody else intended. So in the interests of musical harmony can we get back to talking about what we all have in common i.e boxes

george :(

Quite
Most of us are well aware that the 'book', 'Karen Tweed', and 'Mally', each make, in their own way, significant contributions to our music, all justifiably much respected for a long time. I found the book extremely useful, without problem, and often refer to it still.

This is one of the pickiest and unnecessary threads I have ever read.

Phew !

Rob
 

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